INC NEWS - Picking up leaves!

Fri Dec 8 14:30:45 EST 2006

Bill's logic makes sense.   However the real problem with accumulating leaves isn't that it floods high income basements  "..... so low income leaves can cause flooding in high income basements."   

In reality,  backed up storm water in lower income areas flood the homes and basements of those that live closest to it.   It's those homes that can least afford repairs.    

Also,  fallen leaves left to decompose on lawns, curbs and gutters detract from the visual appearance of a community.

An unkempt neighborhood is an attractant for further decay and blight.

Basing a decision on whether leaves directly impact the flood potential in my basement is NOT a concern of mine.   

How to raise up a neighborhood and participate in a program that encourages all community residents to better themselves IS.

Which is why a number of us (generalizing here) feel that leave disposal is a general obligation of our municipality responsibilities and thus should be built into our tax base and not be fee (or penalty) oriented.

IMHO
Mike Shiflett

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TheOcean1 at aol.com 
  To: Donald.Long at durhamnc.gov ; bragin at nc.rr.com ; nancyg at centralpets.com 
  Cc: council at ci.durham.nc.us ; inc-list at durhaminc.org ; Patrick.Baker at durhamnc.gov 
  Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 1:32 PM
  Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Picking up leaves!

  Having studied the yard waste issue, I'd like to chime in here. In my humble opinion, the only logical conclusion is to roll the entire yard waste program into the tax base. This is because higher income neighborhoods participated in the yard waste program at a much higher rate, presumably because it was easy for them to afford the expense. Those neighborhood's worked well.

  Lower income neighborhoods didn't participate as much, so a greater amount of their yard waste ended up in the storm water run off systems. Water crosses all economic lines, so low income leaves can cause flooding in high income basements. 

  If the cost per household is $60 per year, it would be great if you could get the citizens to pay it, but we've had enough years to prove that they won't. Just one house dumping yard waste down the storm water systems is enough to offset several others participating. So it's a losing bet unless you can get nearly 100% participation, which we can't.

  So the least expensive choice for all of us is no charge collection at the curb. 

  Think of it just like garbage collection. If there was a fee for that, and just 10% opted out and dumped their garbage anywhere and everywhere, it would be a great deal more noticeable than leaves dumped down a hillside. 

  But that's what happens with yard waste when we charge for it at the curb. 

  Yes, that means the higher income areas will pick up slightly more than their share, and the lower income neighborhoods will get a break with their lower tax values. But if it were garbage, instead of leaves, none of them would mind, given the choice of Durham looking like a dump.

  Those leaves aren't as visible, but they cause more problems than many of us realize. 

  Perhaps someday, we'll all enjoy cleaner streets and the ease of raking our yard waste to the curb where efficient vac trucks will suck it up. 

  Bill Anderson

  In a message dated 12/7/2006 10:30:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Donald.Long at durhamnc.gov writes:
    The City does not currently have leaf vac trucks. We are looking at the
    feasibility of requesting them in the next budget cycle.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: bragin at nc.rr.com [mailto:bragin at nc.rr.com] 
    Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:02 AM
    To: Nancy Grandjean
    Cc: Ken Gasch; Council Members; inc-list at durhaminc.org; Baker, Patrick;
    Long, Donald
    Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Picking up leaves!

    This is the way it was done in most places i've lived prior to moving to
    Durham. The key is to get the leaves picked up on a regular basis before
    they enter the drainage system, where they negatively impact the system
    both physically and ecologically.

    My understanding is that the vacuum trucks, if they do in fact exist (i
    haven't seen them myself) are a relatively new investment on the part of
    the city.

    Barry Ragin

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Nancy Grandjean <nancyg at centralpets.com>
    Date: Thursday, December 7, 2006 10:52 am
    Subject: Re:  INC NEWS - Picking up leaves!
    To: bragin at nc.rr.com, Ken Gasch <ken.gasch at hldproductions.com>
    Cc: council at ci.durham.nc.us, inc-list at durhaminc.org,
    patrick.baker at durhamnc.gov, donald.long at durhamnc.gov

    > (Sorry if this comes through as a duplicate message; it didn't go 
    > through the first time I sent it.)
    > 
    > Given that the city already has the leaf vacuum trucks, why can't 
    > we rake leaves to the edge of our property and have them vacuumed 
    > up, instead of wasting time, money, and environmental resources 
    > putting billions of leaves into (relatively small) bags? (Plastic 
    > bags would be even worse environmentally.) I'm sure there's a 
    > logical reason . . . . (ho ho)
    > 
    > Nancy Grandjean
    > 
    > 
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >From: bragin at nc.rr.com [mailto:bragin at nc.rr.com]
    > >Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2006 02:30 PM
    > >To: 'Ken Gasch'
    > >Cc: council at ci.durham.nc.us, inc-list at durhaminc.org, 
    > patrick.baker at durhamnc.gov, 
    > >donald.long at durhamnc.gov
    > >Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Picking up leaves!
    > >
    > >My informal survey, from driving around my neighborhood on pickup 
    > day,>shows around 25% - 35% participation in the yard waste program 
    > in my
    > >neighborhood. (Every year i tell Claire not to renew our yard waste
    > >subscription, and every year she goes ahead and does it anyway.)
    > >
    > >A couple of years back, i did another informal survey of municipal
    > >policies throughout the state of North Carolina. There were a 
    > bunch of
    > >cities that did not have separate fees for collecting yard waste. 
    > There>were some cities that charged a fee for a yard waste cart, 
    > but not a
    > >subscription fee. There were a few that gave the cart away for 
    > free, but
    > >charged a subscription fee. There was one other city (can't recall
    > >which, may have been Winston or Greenville) which charged for both.
    > >Durham was the only one, however, which charged both an initial 
    > fee and
    > >a subscription fee which did not have a policy of picking up all 
    > leaves>in the city during the fall season regardless of 
    > participation in the
    > >program.
    > >
    > >The city does an absolutely terrible job of informing new 
    > residents of
    > >the policy that leaves in plastic bags will not be picked up. Why 
    > should>we jump directly to fining people for gathering their leaves 
    > in plastic
    > >bags when they are at least attempting to keep their yards, and the
    > >streets, free of leaves?
    > >
    > >Addtionally, many of our neighborhoods have large curbside trees
    > >dropping leaves directly into the streets. In my neighborhood, if you
    > >were to have seen the piles of leaves at Knox Circle deposited 
    > there by
    > >nature last week, you'd realize there is nobody to whom a fine can be
    > >given for this.
    > >
    > >Charging citizens extra for leaf pickup in Durham is like charging
    > >citizens extra for clearing the roadways of snow in Buffalo. It's 
    > a fact
    > >of life, and should be budgeted for out of general revenues.
    > >
    > >That said, i'm still glad to see that the city is at least thinking
    > >ahead by (apparently) purchasing some hardware and actually 
    > putting it
    > >to use.  
    > >
    > 
    > 
    > ---------------------------------------------
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    > 
    > 
    > 
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