INC NEWS - Let's give it a chance. Let's see what can beimproved &work to make it better...

Tue May 20 14:02:22 EDT 2008

I think it is worth looking at what has been done (I thought at one time Jane Korest was a sort of neighborhood person within the Planning Department, for example) and what other cities are doing.   

Also, one of the most important things a neighborhood person could be doing is translating what neighborhoods want into "planner language" (yard size instead of space between houses, for example)

Regards, pat

----------------------------------------
> From: mwshiflett at hotmail.com
> To: crc128 at gmail.com; mmr121570 at yahoo.com
> Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:27:41 -0400
> CC: inc-list at DurhamINC.org
> Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Let's give it a chance. Let's see what can be improved &work to make it better...
> 
> All,
> 
> Colin's post is just the sort of objective information (except the 'fool 
> part') that needs to be discussed in the open BEFORE trying an experiment 
> called the Neighborhood Advocate within an already complicated planning 
> process.
> 
> As mentioned before,  there are several 'players' involved in each 
> development that fulfill roles that frequently don't agree with one another.
> 
> Adding another 'layer' unto this process at this point in time just doesn't 
> make sense.
> 
> Suggesting that we simply "give it a chance" and work out these details 
> later would be irresponsible financial folly.
> 
> I'd suggest that the Neighborhood Advocate proposal be an item that is 
> studied and talked about with many different neighborhood and community 
> groups AFTER discussions on this years City/County budget are completed.
> 
> At this point in time,  there are many 'needs' within our community. 
> Suggesting that taxpayers implement another staff position to advocate for 
> neighborhoods is a good WANT,  but not one that overrides providing basic 
> services and needs facing escalating costs and time delays that demand 
> action right now.
> 
> mike shiflett
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Colin Crossman" 
> To: "Melissa Rooney" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 11:14 PM
> Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Let's give it a chance. Let's see what can be 
> improved &work to make it better...
> 
> 
> Melissa-
> 
> What you seem to describe through your post is an educator or a
> facilitator, rather than an advocate. If that is the intent, then what I
> write below probably isn't relevant. When the person steps over from an
> education role into an advisory or advocacy role, however, things will
> become considerably more complicated, especially if the person is an
> attorney. Though you point this out in some places, I don't believe that
> you fully capture the extent of the problem.
> 
> In short, simple conflicts of interest can often be handled by simple
> disclosure.
> 
> Conflicts of interests, between several clients, when the party with the
> potential conflict is an attorney, paid by a third party who may be
> adverse to one or more clients, is quite another. Attorneys are bound by
> rules of professional conduct that regulate precisely these sorts of
> problems. Specifically, RPC 1.7 (reprinted below) guides conflicts of
> interest.
> 
> It is absolutely not clear that /legal/ representation of a neighborhood
> will pass muster on both (a) and all four points of (b) every time, and
> yet the job responsibilities of the Neighborhood Advocate would likely
> compel the employee to act in favor of one faction or another. Without
> further study of the rules of professional conduct and the ethics
> rulings, and potentially a formal blessing from the State Bar, I would
> think that only a foolish attorney would consider this position -
> especially where there are litigious and litigation capable neighbors
> who may disagree with the representation filed on their behalf.
> 
> Also note, that though (b)(4) allows for informed consent, that is only
> allowable if (b)(1) is also true, which may be problematic if there are
> two factions that oppose interest.
> 
> If, on the other hand, the attorney is limited to providing information
> - and not representation in front of a body - then it may not be a problem.
> 
> -Colin
> 
> 
>       Rule 1.7 Conflict of Interest: Current Clients
> 
> (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), a lawyer shall not represent a
> client if the representation involves a concurrent conflict of interest.
> A concurrent conflict of interest exists if:
> 
> (1) the representation of one client will be directly adverse to another
> client; or
> 
> (2) the representation of one or more clients may be materially limited
> by the lawyer’s responsibilities to another client, a former client, or
> a third person, or by a personal interest of the lawyer.
> 
> (b) Notwithstanding the existence of a concurrent conflict of interest
> under paragraph (a), a lawyer may represent a client if:
> 
> (1) the lawyer reasonably believes
> 
> that the lawyer will be able to provide competent and diligent
> representation to each affected client;
> 
> (2) the representation is not prohibited by law;
> 
> (3) the representation does not involve the assertion of a claim by one
> client against another client represented by the lawyer in the same
> litigation or other proceeding before a tribunal
> ; and
> 
> (4) each affected client gives informed consent
> ,
> confirmed in writing
> .
> 
> 
> Melissa Rooney wrote:
>> The Neighborhood Advocate needs to be present at the
>> meeting required between the developer and the
>> community. Those community residents present would be
>> the ones whose voices are heard, just like it is now.
>> Those with an NA or BOD would/should have a community
>> awareness committee (or other appointed person) who
>> would attend this meeting, but if they don't then the
>> NA can only go on the concerns of those who bother to
>> show up at the meeting.
>>
>> At the meeting the NA can introduce him/herself and
>> make it clear that (s)he is here to help the
>> neighborhood with any questions or concerns they have.
>> (S)he might even suggest some potential
>> problems/concerns that the neighborhood may want to
>> think about in relation to the development plan before
>> them. This was done by a planning commissioner at last
>> week's meeting, when she warned neighbors that they
>> should check the development plan's rights of way, or
>> they may find that they lose a good portion of their
>> front yard to a new road.
>>
>> At this time, or say 1 -2 weeks later, the
>> neighborhood organization rep or simply the group of
>> neighbors present, can officially give the NA the
>> ability to speak on their behalf. Or they can simply
>> use the NA as a go-to person from who to get
>> information and assistance, and speak for themselves
>> at the upcoming PC and BOCC or CC meetings. Chances
>> are that, even with an NA, neighbors will need to
>> attend these meetings to show their sincere concerns
>> over whatever issues they have.
>>
>> Of course there may be several neighborhoods who are
>> concerned about the project, in which case they will
>> each need to give the NA official permission to speak
>> for them.
>>
>> Of course, the NA can still inform the PC, Planning
>> Dept, BOCC/CC of all neighbor/citizen groups'
>> concerns, without directly/officially 'speaking for
>> them.' And if there is a disagreement of neighbors,
>> the NA can present both sides of the coin. It's all
>> about communication and transparency.
>>
>> I don't think the NA needs to 'rank' with the PC or
>> the Planning Department. They just need to be the
>> voice and go-between for Durham citizens' concerns,
>> however many neighborhoods/groups/etc. are concerned.
>> This would mean that they would explain the process
>> and the stance/reasoning of the PC and Planning Dept.
>> to concerned citizens, and present those citizens'
>> concerns at both PC and BOCC/CC meetings. At the end
>> of the day, the process is what it is, and the PC,
>> Planning Department, and elected officials still trump
>> the NA.
>>
>> Is there a direct conflict of interest if the NA is a
>> lawyer being paid by the city but supposedly
>> representing neighborhood interests as their primary
>> job responsibility?
>>
>> I don't think so. I mean, is there a direct conflict
>> of interest if someone who works in the development
>> board sits on the Planning Commission? I very rarely
>> see any paid position that doesn't represent a
>> potential conflict of interest. If the
>> neighborhoods/citizens are unhappy with the manner in
>> which the NA represents their interest, they can
>> certainly inform elected officials as such and
>> request/demand a new NA.
>>
>> Just my 10 cents...
>>
>> Melissa
>>
>> Melissa Rooney
>> Fairfield Rep
>> mmr121570 at yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Mike - Hotmail  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> WE DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THE PAST!!!
>>>
>>> But before moving forward with inserting a
>>> Neighborhood Advocate into this
>>> years budget let's sit down and work out the details
>>> first on HOW this
>>> position will benefit the community.
>>>
>>> Right now the process can be very intimidating and
>>> confusing to newcomers
>>> (even experiences ones).
>>>
>>> As Mr. Pickle, Pat and a number of others on this
>>> listserve have proven,
>>> this forum as just one of the ways these discussions
>>> should take place to
>>> improve it.
>>>
>>> Ignoring questions with euphemisms about WHY some
>>> feel a Neighborhood
>>> Advocate needs to be created doesn't answer those
>>> concerns that have already
>>> been raised.
>>>
>>> Which 'voice' would the neighborhood advocate
>>> represent over what the staff
>>> recommends or how the Planning Commission votes ?
>>> The neighborhood
>>> association?  The board of an NA?  The board of an
>>> HOA?
>>>
>>> Is there a formal procedure that neighborhoods need
>>> to follow to give the
>>> Neighborhood Advocate the ability to speak for them?
>>>
>>> What if a neighborhood isn't organized?  Can a few
>>> people speak for a
>>> neighborhood without some sort of authority to do
>>> so?
>>>
>>> Where does the Planning Commission recommendations
>>> rank if there's a
>>> difference in opinions between what the neighborhood
>>> wants, the Planning
>>> Department says is ok and City Council has to vote
>>> on?
>>>
>>> What happens if a neighborhood is split or still
>>> isn't sure about what's in
>>> it's best interest in a timely manner?   Which
>>> position will a NA
>>> 'represent'.
>>>
>>> Is there a direct conflict of interest if the NA is
>>> a lawyer being paid by
>>> the city but supposedly representing neighborhood
>>> interests as their primary
>>> job
>>> responsibility?
>>>
>>> Aren't our elected officials (staff and the vision
>>> of the Comprehensive
>>> Plan) supposed to function in the role of
>>> representing our community?
>>>
>>> Where's our Neighborhood Improvement Services
>>> Community Resource personnel
>>> fit into this new scheme?  Don't they have some of
>>> the same job functions
>>> that's being proposed for the NA?
>>>
>>> Why did the OP/ED authors attack NIS capabilities?
>>>
>>> How can someone say that these questions are red
>>> herrings?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John Schelp" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:00 PM
>>> Subject: INC NEWS - Let's give it a chance. Let's
>>> see what can be improved
>>> &work to make it better...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The point I'm trying to make (again) is we don't
>>>>
>>> know
>>>
>>>> what final form the Neighborhood Advocate will
>>>>
>>> take.
>>>
>>>> And won't know until getting input from community
>>>> members, elected officials, staff and others (well
>>>> beyond this listserv).
>>>>
>>>> Frankly, I'm not going get into a tit-for-tat over
>>>> questions that are red herrings...
>>>>
>>>> Will the Neighborhood Advocate hold trump cards
>>>>
>>> over
>>>
>>>> the Mayor and Council? Of course not.
>>>>
>>>> People who ignore history are condemned to repeat
>>>>
>>> it.
>>>
>>>> As we said in support of the Neighborhood College
>>>> (below), let's give it a chance. Let's see what
>>>>
>>> can be
>>>
>>>> improved and work to make it better -- before
>>>>
>>> jumping
>>>
>>>> out of the gate and undermining the idea.
>>>>
>>>> After all, who would want to keep the
>>>>
>>> neighborhoods in
>>>
>>>> the dark?
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Neighborhood College will help more
>>>>
>>> people
>>>
>>>> get involved in the local process
>>>> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:10
>>>>
>>>> We have people that would cut the funding for the
>>>> Neighborhood College.
>>>>
>>>> Why would they cut something that has not develop
>>>>
>>> an
>>>
>>>> budget. There will be a
>>>> start up cost. Durham should not wasting money.
>>>>
>>> How do
>>>
>>>> the cutter know how
>>>> much it should cost without a history. They say
>>>>
>>> that
>>>
>>>> they support the
>>>> program, but are willing to cut funding for the
>>>> Neighborhood College before
>>>> it's get started. They can't have it both ways.
>>>>
>>> The
>>>
>>>> City Manger looked at
>>>> the cost of other cities Neighborhood College and
>>>>
>>> came
>>>
>>>> up with a number. I
>>>> respect the opinion of other, let's not be a penny
>>>> wise and a pond foolish.
>>>> Please read John Schelp responds below. He is on
>>>>
>>> point
>>>
>>>> and we need to send a
>>>> clear message to the City, we want this program
>>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>> spend what it take to
>>>> make it happen. This decision need to be propone
>>>>
>>> for a
>>>
>>>> year, when we can evaluate ways to cut cost.
>>>>
>>>> Your Servant
>>>> Melvin L. Whitley
>>>>
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From what I understand, the speakers would not be
>>>>>
>>>> paid
>>>>
>>>>> (rather, classes would be taught by volunteer
>>>>>
>>> staff,
>>>
>>>>> elected officials and volunteers active in the
>>>>> community). According to the N&O, funding would
>>>>>
>>> help
>>>
>>>>> support transportation costs, box meals and class
>>>>> materials (not everyone in the Durham community
>>>>>
>>> has
>>>
>>>> a computer).
>>>>
>>>>> Attendees would pay $25 each (to help off-set
>>>>>
>>> costs
>>>
>>>>> and encourage participation in all the classes).
>>>>>
>>>> There
>>>>
>>>>> may indeed be ways to cut costs (and we can and
>>>>>
>>>> should
>>>>
>>>>> look at those ways once the college is
>>>>>
>>> functioning).
>>>
>>>>> But I don't think it was helpful to say $5000 was
>>>>>
>>>> "too
>>>>
>>>>> much" without first speaking with the folks who
>>>>>
>>>> worked
>>>>
>>>>> so hard to get the Neighborhood College this far.
>>>>>
>>>>> All five PAC's, Durham Literacy Council, East
>>>>>
>>> Durham
>>>
>>>>> Fair Share, People's Alliance, Durham Committee
>>>>>
>>> for
>>>
>>>>> the Affairs of Black People, Durham Affordable
>>>>>
>>>> Housing
>>>>
>>>>> Coalition, InterNeighborhood Council, Durham
>>>>>
>>> Voter
>>>
>>>>> Coalition, Northeast Central Economic Development
>>>>>
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INC-list mailing list
>> INC-list at rtpnet.org
>> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INC-list mailing list
> INC-list at rtpnet.org
> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INC-list mailing list
> INC-list at rtpnet.org
> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
_________________________________________________________________
Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld