INC NEWS - any cuts just has to hurt somewhere...

[RW Pickle]

I have no children either but realize the value of an education. That's
why I do not mind supporting the education of our children. I realize that
a future of educated citizens offers much more to our society than those
who would choose to be uneducated. Potential earnings, future tax dollars,
depends on their success. The other side of that uneducated population is
the social service empire it takes today to support them. I'd suggest drug
treatment centers and prisoner rehab services fall into the category of
those who failed to get an education (although I am sure some of those in
those services did).

The Visitors Center is supported by a user fee. As I understand it, it is
attached to restaurant and hotel/motel bills. Reyn knows how all of that
works. But it is a fee collected system (at least in part).

Recreation and Senior centers serve a broad spectrum of  our population.
By their very nature, they potentially serve us all (if we chose to
utilize them). They have fees associated with their use. Do they cover the
entire costs? I have no idea because they are not aspects of our life in
Durham I see. I helped fund and build the new garden off the side of the
Senior Center downtown. That is the only time I have ever been there. Rec
Centers... I go to the PAC meeting at Lyon Park and that's about it. But
I'm sure others use the pools, gyms, meeting rooms, and the other aspects
of these Centers they offer. I know there are charges associated with much
of the uses mentioned above.

As far as the Yard Waste Program, I don't feel like I was charged twice
(once for the service and once for cleaning storm drains). Much of the
problem with leaves/debris in the storm drainage system comes from our
roadside trees that belong to the City. And I doubt anyone wants to see
them all removed. They are located close to the road and drop their leaves
there. Street cleaning often aids in solving this, but I'm sure some gets
missed. And if someone who didn't belong to the program caused some of the
blockage, it would have been much worse had those of us who built this
program were not part of it. You also have many "composters" out there who
utilize these leaves to amend their soil and do not need the service.

I don't even think the leaves/storm drainage problem is anywhere near the
problem of actual sewer blockages. And leaf debris has nothing to do with
that.

The storm debris issue is a whole other thing. And belonging to the
program or not had nothing to do with the cleanup. That is when Emergency
Management kicks in and deals with debris because it has nothing to do
with "normal" operations. We didn't have this in place when the last big
storm came through. And I fought to get the new equipment we bought (after
paying $3.2M+ to a contractor for cleanup) to be funded with Federal
Emergency Management funding. But it went through the Solid Waste budget
and has now turned in the Brushy/Bulky Item Pickup service they now offer.
So we now have the equipment (if we don't wear it our prior to needing
it...) to deal with these large scale cleanup efforts from storms. Urban
Forestry and Neighborhood Improvement Services also has some of this
equipment now, so what happened last time won't happen again.

I guess some things can be "user taxed based" while others become  what we
expect our municipality to provide from our tax base. Do I require them to
provide music or art? I don't, but they do any way. Go down to CCB plaza
tomorrow and enjoy some Latin music. Don't like Latin music? Check out
Laura's' post today for much more free music downtown during the month of
June. And it happens every month... Do we need more music? I can't get to
all we have now...

RWP
27 Beverly

> I don't necessarily buy this line of reasoning.
>
> But lets push it along: Since I have no kids and don't use the school
> system, I don't think its right that my tax dollars pay for the school
> system and would rather direct my tax funds to the arts, which I do use.
> I don't use the senior center, the visitors center, recreation centers,
> drug treatment services, or prisoner rehabilitation services. Do ditto
> for them. Lets make them all user funded too.
>
> And on the Yard Waste Program--yeah, it was great to have a "user
> funded" program. And then we had to direct tax dollars to things like
> storm drain cleaning--to clear them of all the leaves and yard waste
> that ran into them from the yards of those who chose not to pay for the
> city service and post-ice storm and hurricane cleanup-. Because there
> was such a huge outcry about the debris from non-paying residents
> stacked up at the curbs. So the paying customers actually paid
> twice--one for the service and again in the tax revenues it cost to
> clean up after the non-payers.
>
> Kelly
>
>
> RW Pickle wrote:
>> I am all for "user funded anything" as that does as you say, frees up
>> funding for other areas/problems/concerns. I guess the problem is that
>> if
>> these organizations charged what it took to roll out their various
>> productions/shows/events, then they might find that they would no longer
>> be able to do so because it did not break even (or make financial
>> sense).
>> I think that's what all of this about anyway. Getting all of these
>> groups
>> either to become financially independent or fold. Some will make it
>> while
>> others will fall by the wayside as unwanted and unsupported by the
>> community. I guess it depends on what "value" they bring to the table...
>>
>> An example of this is our Yard Waste Program in the City. I'm not sure
>> how
>> it works out today (not having a yard waste facility here in our
>> community
>> and shipping it all off to VA; I have been assurred that one is coming
>> again soon...), but three years ago the Yard Waste Program was funded by
>> those who subscribed to the service and it was breaking even. So that
>> was
>> a good thing for the tax payers. Here was a City service that was paid
>> for
>> by those who wanted the service and not an expense born by anyone else.
>> It
>> would be nice to see that sort of thought process across the board when
>> it
>> comes to spending.
>>
>> RWP
>> 27 Beverly
>>
>>
>>
>>> Fair point at the end, but an earmarked admissions tax is just a way of
>>> transferring the cost of the arts to the arts user, freeing up the
>>> general fund for the core responsibilities of government.  It is only
>>> an
>>> alternative to a method where the arts are left to wither or unfairly
>>> pitted against needs that must be supported by the general fund.
>>> Another way to look at it, do we really think the price of our ticket
>>> now is paying enough to provide the entertainment we're
>>> getting...no-way.
>>>
>>> But it was just an idea borrowed from other models of funding.  I'm
>>> open
>>> to anything but the approach we have now.
>>>
>>> RB
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org [mailto:inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of RW Pickle
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:32 PM
>>> To: inc-list at durhaminc.org
>>> Subject: INC NEWS - any cuts just has to hurt somewhere...
>>>
>>> There are a lot of projections used in the budgetary process. One of
>>> our
>>> questions is "can you get it done/started/completed in the coming
>>> budget
>>> cycle?" If not, it can wait. But from this, we see the wish lists that
>>> could trickle down into funding just about everything eventually. But
>>> it
>>> all costs real dollars.
>>>
>>> Barry is sort of right about something here. It does all boil down to
>>> Council (or Commissioners) deciding where they will spend the money and
>>> how much they will spend on any particular item. I can only hope that
>>> the
>>> countless hours spent by citizens that have volunteered their time in
>>> analyzing it, scoring it, and recommending what we all (and that must
>>> be
>>> a
>>> huge ALL, not just the Capital Improvement Group I'm in, but all
>>> citizens
>>> who volunteer trying to make the ends meet) think we need. Because most
>>> of
>>> these recommendations came from people who live all across this town
>>> and
>>> come to the table with many different backgrounds. One may support one
>>> thing very strongly while another may not value that particular thing.
>>> With many people voicing their opinion in the process, what we end up
>>> with
>>> is what we need (regardless if we want it or not; a synthesis by all
>>> means
>>> that as an average, it was more important if it rose to the top of the
>>> averaged list). We're currently spending a great deal on American with
>>> Disabilities Act compliance in our City. I remember when it was
>>> enacted.
>>> It's been a while and we still haven't gotten all this stuff done. Now
>>> we're in a rush because we'll be fined for not having it done. So we've
>>> short funded it for years until now, we have to get it done.
>>>
>>> Some things change (at least in the Capital Improvement budget) as this
>>> process moves forward. For example, if Greenfire takes over one of the
>>> parking decks and bears the cost of renovation, that'll free up $6.2M+
>>> and
>>> would allow 18 or 19 more projects to be funded in the CIP. That's
>>> still
>>> not down a half page in a 2 page list. And this is just on the short
>>> list
>>> we started with. Budget and Finance is trying to find more to cut
>>> before
>>> it makes it further into the process (as Council has asked).
>>>
>>> If we decided we were going to do a four year tax increase that would
>>> sunset at the end of the fourth year (for 4 times what we're currently
>>> looking at getting; say from $.15 to $.60-.75), we could get a great
>>> deal
>>> done with the influx of more funds. Even for that short of a time. But
>>> would it be enough to get it all done? Like I said, we don't even have
>>> the
>>> people it would take to deal with it all. And it would cost us all more
>>> if
>>> only just for a short time. Just as Council or Commissioners vote to
>>> increase taxes, they also must pay these fees since they live here as
>>> well.  And these increases in fuels, groceries, water, taxes, etc add
>>> up
>>> for a lot of people and make life yet more difficult. Especially those
>>> on
>>> fixed incomes.
>>>
>>> One thing we do need to do right now is to acquire debt. The City
>>> Council/Budget Office likes to keep our debt load around 12%. Money
>>> today
>>> has never been cheaper (in the amount we need to get things done) and
>>> while it's cheap, we need to increase this load to maybe 17-20%. So we
>>> need to bite the bullet, borrow more while it's cheap, and work our
>>> butts
>>> off getting stuff done. Last time I looked, it looked like there
>>> already
>>> is a lot going on. But seeing it all in numbers and projects, there's a
>>> lot left to do. And it doesn't seem to be getting any cheaper. Just
>>> look
>>> at fuel costs over the last year. The City has something like 1100
>>> vehicles it puts out on the road each day. The County has all those
>>> school
>>> busses (plus a fleet). Everyone buys fuel, so you know how much the
>>> cost
>>> has gone up. Just as an example, Solid Waste goes through more than
>>> 1200
>>> gallons of fuel a day! The budget we are working under now was fixed
>>> last
>>> year. So it's even short before we get to the next new budget to
>>> increase
>>> it. But that doesn't mean we've stopped needing fuel today and it must
>>> be
>>> paid for today as well. So we rob Peter to pay Paul (as the saying
>>> goes).
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say the budget process this year is a disgrace because it's
>>> a
>>> work in progress. And as long as I can remember, there has been a
>>> shortage
>>> of funds to make all the ends meet. So we have the same dance year
>>> after
>>> year. That's why, at least for Capital Projects, we're going to spend
>>> the
>>> next year developing a long-range plan so we can roll out funding
>>> yearly
>>> if necessary to get it all done.
>>>
>>> The sudden outcry by the NCA community is really moot. Like Barry said,
>>> why didn't it come up during the campaigns? It's been 2 years in the
>>> coming and like the panel I sit on (the CCIP), the arts funding was
>>> decided by citizens as well. They looked at the requests, like we look
>>> at
>>> the Capital Project requests, and decided what was important. So it's
>>> the
>>> community really deciding (at least up front) what it wants and needs.
>>> The
>>> final decisions will always be made by our elected officials... We can
>>> only hope they listen to us.
>>>
>>> The real disgrace is that there isn't enough money to go around for
>>> everything. But then again, there is no blank check in this process. If
>>> there were, I guess everyone would be happy... Or would they? It all
>>> has
>>> to be paid for some how and we're the ones paying for it (and that
>>> includes our elected officials and most of the folks who work for our
>>> municipality). Would you pay 4 times in property taxes right now just
>>> to
>>> make it all work? I doubt it. But it might just change the funding
>>> metrics
>>> enough so as to get it all done and we'll have some left for other
>>> things.
>>>
>>> I hated to hear an "admissions tax" mentioned in an earlier email. It
>>> just
>>> becomes another one of those hidden fees we end up paying especially
>>> when
>>> it comes to music in our City. There's a lot of competition in Durham;
>>> too
>>> much free music for many to want to pay for it, muchless pay an
>>> additional
>>> tax on it for admission. And that's a good thing. Free to all is what
>>> it
>>> should be. Like the Latin music in CCB Plaza this weekend. It's not a
>>> fee
>>> based event; the City (DPR) is throwing the party. The City still
>>> believes
>>> in the arts and here is an example of it. So get out and enjoy what
>>> your
>>> taxes are paying for! And at many of the other free music events held
>>> around the City this summer.
>>>
>>> RWP
>>> 27 Beverly
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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