INC NEWS - [pac2] RE: agenda and proposed resolutionsfor April 25 meeting
TheOcean1 at aol.com
TheOcean1 at aol.com
Fri Apr 21 12:38:03 EDT 2006
Now we're all agreeing!
I agree with Melvin, drive by shootings are a much greater concern. Picking
up litter won't reduce them much, if any. But picking up litter won't
increase them either, and there's no need to leave litter visible while we search
for solutions to drive by shootings.
I also agree with Newman, that education is really where we'll make a dent.
We need to educate folks to stop handing dollars out their car windows. But
it seems crazy not to discourage the recipients from standing there providing
the temptation.
Let's dissuade the givers from giving through education about how those
dollars are likely used, while we dissuade the needy from standing in a dangerous
location hoping some will ignore the education we've supplied.
Meaning we must work on that educational component AND remove the temptation
at each corner.
Bill Anderson
In a message dated 4/21/2006 11:43:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Reyn at Durham-cvb.com writes:
There is a correlation between appearance issues and the violent behavior
from that gun. It isn’t either/or, its both/and and appearances issues are
also key to having the resources to get that violence under control.
Reyn Bowman
____________________________________
From: inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org [mailto:inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org] On
Behalf Of Rev. Melvin Whitley
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:37 AM
To: Newman Aguiar; inc-list at durhaminc.org
Cc: pac2 at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: INC NEWS - [pac2] RE: agenda and proposed resolutionsfor April
25 meeting
This is a non-issue in East Durham. Last year we had 147 people shot by
people who had no legal right to have gun or bullets. INC is upset about
panhandlers while a 13 year ago boy is fighting for his life from a gun wound to his
back. Somehow I feel their is a disconnect between those who have and those
who have not. We still have a problem with broken windows while others are have
a problem with people asking for help. Newman with I was their I would vote
against it has well.
Your Servant
Rev. Melvin Whitley
2614 Harvard Ave
Durham NC 27703
(919) 596-9691 - Home
(919) 308-2844 - Cell
_tellmelvin at nc.rr.com_ (mailto:tellmelvin at nc.rr.com)
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----- Original Message -----
From: _Newman Aguiar_ (mailto:newman at nc.rr.com)
To: _inc-list at durhaminc.org_ (mailto:inc-list at durhaminc.org)
Cc: _pac2 at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:pac2 at yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: INC NEWS - [pac2] RE: agenda and proposed resolutions for April
25 meeting
Indeed, Bill. As you and Ken are well aware, if I didn’t have an ongoing
conflict with the meeting date, you know I would be there with bells on.
Regardless of how the proposed change is worded, based on the efforts of
other cities and well documented evidence of these efforts, we have two options
(permit me to oversimplify):
1. Stop giving money to panhandlers (or any roadside vendor) – give to
your favorite charity – panhandling reduces or stops – community wins (NO
COST OPTION) (Note: removing street vending has been shown to have negative
effects on local economy; conversely, managed street vending has been shown to
have positive economic effects on the local community)
2. Enact the proposed ordinance change
1. ordinance is never enforced – panhandling continues (most likely
scenario based on the data)
2. ordinance is enforced (consistently or selectively) – taxpayers pay
significant cost for enforcement – we feel like we have done something useful
– panhandling continues (perhaps, gets displaced) (COSTLY) (Add to costs,
the negative economic impact caused by removal of street vendors)
The evidence is out there. Nothing in the proposed change offers any new
idea that hasn’t already been tested and failed. Perhaps there is the public
will to go forward with the proposed change. You and Ken have stated how you
will vote. I cannot be at the meeting, so I won’t be voting. I really don’
t know where our community stands on this. I truly hope we don’t go down a
path that will be costly and do nothing to change the situation and perhaps,
make it worse (since, if enforced, very likely some street vendors will be
converted to panhandlers).
Newman
____________________________________
From: inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org [mailto:inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org] On
Behalf Of TheOcean1 at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:26 PM
To: ken.gasch at hldproductions.com; inc-list at durhaminc.org
Cc: pac2 at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: INC NEWS - [pac2] RE: agenda and proposed resolutions for April
25 meeting
Newman
I'll second that. Was at both meetings, and speak for all when I say your
presence is dearly missed. Not being at either meeting doesn't lessen the
weight of your words Newman, we all know and respect you, and understand you've
looked into the efforts of other cities, etc.
However, the current phrasing is much more "let's find a better solution
than having our needy stand on the curb and beg", than it is an "anti
panhandling" effort. I understand other cities have semi-failed, but it is even more
insane to continue delivering undocumented amounts of cash in an unsafe
location... namely our intersections.
I will be supporting the motion, but always hope the neighborhoods come get
the story first hand.
Tues, April 25 at 7pm in the Herald Sun building on Pickett Road
Bill Anderson
In a message dated 4/20/2006 9:42:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ken.gasch at hldproductions.com writes:
Newman,
I was present when Lewis Cheek came to speak about this proposal at both
PAC2 and at INC. I have given the matter a great deal of thought. I have
visited at length with "solicitors" in my neighborhood. I have come to the
conclusion that this change in our solicitation ordinance will positively
impact the current situation. I hope that neighborhood reps show up and
vote in favor of this change.
Respectfully,
Ken Gasch
ORDINANCE REGULATIN SOLICITATION ON THE
STREETS AND HIGHWAYS OF DURHAM COUNTY
WHEREAS, pursuant to N.C.G.S. 153a-121-153A-125, and 153A-176, the Board of
Commissioner may regulate begging, solicitation campaigns, and salesmen; and
WHEREAS, begging and the solicitation of money for charities or businesses
in the streets and highways of Durham poses a significant hazard both to
pedestrian and motorists, and
WHEREAS, begging and the solicitation of money in the streets and highways
of Durham poses a significant opportunity for fraud and misrepresentation,
NOW, THEREFORE, THE BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS FOR THE COUNTY OF DURHAM DOTH
ORDAIN:
1.. That the Durham County Code of Ordinances is hereby amended by adding
a new article to be numbered Article IV of Chapter 22, which article reads
as follows;
ARTICLE IV. SOLICITATION ON THE STREETS AND HIGHWAYS
Sec 22-61 Solicitations defined
For the purposes of this article, "solicit" shall mean the
asking for money or objects of value, with the intention that the money or
object be transferred at that time, and at that place. Solicitation shall
include using the spoke, written or printed word bodily gestures, signs, or
other means with the purpose of obtaining an immediate donation of money or
other thing of value or soliciting the sale of goods or services.
Sec 22-61 Solicitation prohibited
It shall be unlawful for any person to solicit an operator of
other occupant of a motor vehicle while such vehicle is located on any
street or highway. Provided, however, that this section shall not apply to
services rendered in connection with emergency repairs request by the
operator or passenger of such vehicle.
Sec. 22-62 Jurisdiction
This article shall be effective for all of Durham County not
within a city, and effective in such city or cities, which have by
resolution permitted this article to be effective within each city or cities
2.. This Ordinance shall be effective on ratification
This the _____day of______, 2006
----- Original Message -----
From: "Newman Aguiar" <newman at nc.rr.com>
To: <inc-list at durhaminc.org>
Cc: <TrinityPark at yahoogroups.com>; <pac2 at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:11 PM
Subject: [pac2] RE: INC NEWS - agenda and proposed resolutions for April 25
meeting
>* Vendors in Roadside Right of Way -- FINAL VOTE
>
> "We, the membership of the Inter-neighborhood Council, support a change to
> Durham's current solicitation ordinance that would bar solicitation from
> rights-of-way in Durham."
>
> I hope sufficient neighborhood reps show up for the April 25 meeting to
> vote
> this down. There has been significant discussion on this issue and it
> troubles me that INC would take up a resolution in support of a change,
> even
> though strong evidence has been shown, that such a change would do little
> or
> nothing to address the current situation.
>
> Newman
>
>
>
>
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