INC NEWS - Fw: [TrinityPark] Re: How do we solve theDuke/Gregson problem?
Mike - Hotmail
mwshiflett at hotmail.com
Fri Nov 16 10:14:59 EST 2007
Barry is right and his forecast of another imminent fatality is unavoidable.
Durham is considered a major college town (NCCU and Duke) and it benefits
greatly when town and gown efforts coincide.
Safety for our visiting students at the NC School of Science and Math is a
priority!
Other cities have instituted fairly simple signage and crosswalk mitigation
techniques to reduce the risks to pedestrians.
We should support their implementation here.
One that I just saw this summer was during a visit to Boulder CO. They
have motion detected crosswalk signs that have embedded yellow flashing
lights that activate as a pedestrian walks up to the edge of the road (at a
designated crosswalk).
The additional visual cue of the flashing lights brings the motorists
attention to the presence of the pedestrian and they are able to stop in
time for them to cross.
It's a definite improvement over simple signage that is static and is mostly
ignored by many motorists.
I don't think that the cost would come near the damage done to either a
vehicle or human body!
Mike Shiflett
----- Original Message -----
From: "pat carstensen" <pats1717 at hotmail.com>
To: <inc-list at durhaminc.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Fw: [TrinityPark] Re: How do we solve
theDuke/Gregson problem?
> As far as I can tell, the only thing that transportation planning /
> spending
> ges really penalized is for making air quality worse (they cut off federal
> money for roads if we don't have an "approved plan" to show how we will
> meet
> air quality standards according a their computer model). Keeping cars
> flowing is how you keep the air quality up.
>
> Pedestrian safety is left as carrot (grants which are never enough to help
> pay for it) and local political pressure (which gets concentrated when
> there
> is an accident)
>
> What we need is something like No Child Left Behind for roads -- every
> year
> we measure how safe our roads are for bikes and pedestrians (among other
> measures), and punish those who fail. (-:
>
> Regards, pat
>
>
>>From: Barry Ragin <bragin at nc.rr.com>
>>To: inc-list at durhaminc.org, durhambikeandped at yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Fw: [TrinityPark] Re: How do we solve the
>>Duke/Gregson problem?
>>Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:59:45 -0500
>>
>>you know, the city spent a whole bunch of money identifying problem
>>pedestrian areas and designing a plan for enhancing pedestrian safety
>>throughout the city and prioritizing projects and educational programs
>>that would lead lead to a more walkable community.
>>
>>the plan is called DurhamWalks!, and it was adopted by council last
>>spring.
>>http://www.durhamnc.gov/durhamwalks/
>>
>>so, are we going to have to wait until there's a fatal or near-fatal
>>accident at every intersection before we actually start, you know,
>>implementing this plan? NCDOT is getting ready to build another
>>pedestrian monstrosity when it widens Alston Ave. in the next couple of
>>years, putting even more pressure on the limited funds available to
>>make this a walkable community.
>>
>>The city can start by doing a couple of things immediately:
>>
>>1) let drivers know that pedestrians in crosswalks have the right of
>>way. Hang some signs (there are hundreds of the new fluorescent green
>>pedestrian signs around town. how many of them contain information that
>>says drivers must yield to pedestrians?) to that effect. Write some
>>tickets when people don't do it. Put some articles in the damn newspaper
>>and run some PSA's on the local radio stations. We've got a lot more
>>people on the streets than we used to, and the streets, especially in
>>town, aren't going to get any safer without active intervention.
>>
>>2) enforce speed limits on our surface streets. We know that most
>>vehicles on Duke, Gregson, Roxboro, Mangum, Avondale, Alston, Guess, and
>>our other north south surface streets are travelling in excess of the
>>speed limit. How often do we see police setting up and writing speeding
>>tickets? When i lived in Watts-Hillandale neighborhood, i would see the
>>police twice a year, at least, set up at Club and Oakland, by Oval Park,
>>for this purpose. In my neighborhood, the average speed on northbound
>>Roxboro by the railroad tracks was measured at 48 mph a few years ago,
>>in a 35 mph zone. Yet, i've not seen a single concerted effort to
>>enforce the speed limit, and only a handful of individual tickets
>>written in the past 6 years.
>>
>>We can start by demanding that City Council start funding and
>>implementing the pedestrian safety program that they spent over $300 K
>>on developing in 2005-2006, and by letting them know that we expect them
>>to be proactive in this area, and not merely responsive to an accident
>>here or there. These kinds of pedestrian/vehicle accidents are utterly
>>avoidable, and there's no reason to wait for the next one before taking
>>action. NCDOT is going to have the final say over any design changes
>>made on each of the roads mentioned above, and we know how difficult
>>that's going to be. So let's start doing the things that are in the
>>city's power before anybody else gets killed.
>>
>>Barry Ragin
>>1706 Shawnee St.
>>
>>(i'm only posting this to the INC list and the Durham bike and ped list,
>>but if anyone wants to forward to the Trinity Park list or other lists,
>>you have my permission)
>>
>>Mike - Hotmail wrote:
>> > Several years ago INC was instrumental in coordinating and
>> > orchestrating an 'Alternative for the Eno Loop'.
>> >
>> > It was a long and drawn out process which included not only the
>> > creation of something called the Northern Durham Parkway but also an
>> > endorsement in building the EAST END CONNECTOR that had been on the
>> > books for over 20 years.
>> >
>> > Recently discussions in several of the neighborhoods up and down
>> > Gregson and Duke have taken place that might necessitate a
>> > revisitation of those transportation and road discussions in Durham at
>> > INC.
>> >
>> > mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > *From:* Kevin Davis <mailto:ksdavis at gmail.com>
>> > *To:* Jdobbinsjd at aol.com <mailto:Jdobbinsjd at aol.com>
>> > *Cc:* adam.j.dickinson at gmail.com <mailto:adam.j.dickinson at gmail.com> ;
>> > TrinityPark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:TrinityPark at yahoogroups.com>
>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:12 AM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [TrinityPark] Re: How do we solve the Duke/Gregson
>>problem?
>> >
>> > Debbie,
>> >
>> > I think you and Adam both make good points. From my perspective, I am
>> > less interested in which solution is chosen in re paint, signs, street
>> > direction... than that _some_ effective solution is selected. I know
>> > I don't expect for some consensus over the "right answer" to come from
>> > listserv discussions alone.
>> >
>> > It sounds like this has been an uphill battle from day one, and it is
>> > terrible that a tragedy brings this to front of mind, but that may
>> > just be human nature. I know it certainly brought things into stark
>> > relief for me.
>> >
>> > I would note that city leadership, led by the council, was very
>> > responsive with making a change at Broad/Perry, despite NC DOT
>> > objections, after the pedestrian accident this fall. I hope we face
>> > this same positive environment for response from the city than in the
>> > past when this is brought up anew.
>> >
>> > -- Kevin
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1/16/07, *Jdobbinsjd at aol.com <mailto:Jdobbinsjd at aol.com>*
>> > <Jdobbinsjd at aol.com <mailto:Jdobbinsjd at aol.com> > wrote:
>> >
>> > We have this discussion everytime a tragedy on Gregson or Duke
>> > Streets
>> > occur. We have been having this discussion for at least 15 years
>> > that I
>> > know of. All of our efforts to make changes in the situation on
>>these
>> > streets have never come to any type of fruition. The debate on
>> > 2-way
>> > traffic on our current one way streets often ends in some fairly
>> > nasty
>> > exchanges. Perhaps this time, something can happen. Remember change
>> > begins at home and if even the residents of our neighborhood
>> > choose to
>> > ignore speed limits, stop signs etc., how can we expect those just
>> > passing through to respect the rules and show the courtesy to our
>> > neighborhood and to pedestrians that our neighbors often cannot be
>> > bothered with. Why does it always take a horrific incident to again
>> > re-open this line of discussion?
>> >
>> > Debbie
>> > Monmouth Ave.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: adam.j.dickinson at gmail.com
>><mailto:adam.j.dickinson%40gmail.com>
>> > To: TrinityPark at yahoogroups.com
>><mailto:TrinityPark%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > Sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 9:29 AM
>> > Subject: [TrinityPark] Re: How do we solve the Duke/Gregson
>> > problem?
>> >
>> > Let me start off by saying that this is an incredible tragedy. It
>> > could have been any one of us either on the street or behind the
>>wheel
>> > of that car. Even the most conscientious among us have gone 40 mph
>> > plus on Duke or Gregson. At that speed 85% of car-pedestrian
>> > accidents are fatal. The conditions on those streets encourage
>> > highway rates of speed in a residential neighborhood. While any of
>>us
>> > would have hopefully stopped after such an accident, the damage
>>would
>> > have already been done.
>> >
>> > The easiest way to slow people down without adding speed bumps that
>> > will delay emergency response vehicles and jar everyone's bones is
>>to
>> > change these two streets (back?) to 2-way, and allow parking on
>> > both
>> > sides in as many zones as possible. Where possible, reducing the
>> > width of lanes will also help. The whole idea is to reduce the
>> > speed
>> > at which drivers feel safe traveling through the creation of "side
>> > friction".
>> >
>> > It may appear counter-intuitive, but two two-way streets actually
>>have
>> > more vehicular capacity than two-one way streets, even though
>>traffic
>> > moves more slowly (it has to do with, among other things, the
>> > following distance at higher speeds). I'll find references and post
>> > them under a new thread.
>> >
>> > The old-school traffic engineers at NC DOT are only concerned with
>> > moving vehicles, but there is a sea-change happening in the traffic
>> > engineering world due to a body of knowledge proving that modern
>> > "safer" streets for cars (meaning straighter, wider lanes, with
>>large
>> > fields of view) are actually much less safe due to the higher
>> > speeds
>> > they encourage, both for motorists and especially pedestrians.
>> >
>> > Adam Dickinson
>> > Watts Street
>> >
>> > --- In TrinityPark at yahoogroups.com
>> > <mailto:TrinityPark%40yahoogroups.com>, "Kevin Davis"
>> > <ksdavis at ...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I read the posts on the listserv about the hit-and-run on Duke
>> > Street before
>> > > I had time to turn on the TV. My wife and I were horrified to
>> > hear
>> > of this
>> > > poor woman's death.
>> > >
>> > > Just last night, we walked (via sidewalk) from our house on the
>> > eastern side
>> > > of Duke St. to Northgate Mall to get some ice cream. The hardest
>> > part of
>> > > the whole walk is crossing two lanes of northbound traffic to get
>>to
>> > the
>> > > western side of Duke St. It seems that since the traffic signals
>> > downtown
>> > > had their timing updated, traffic just flies up Duke Street at
>> > increasingly
>> > > unsafe speeds.
>> > >
>> > > We've only been in the neighborhood a couple of years but had
>> > researched the
>> > > traffic issue and past traffic calming efforts before moving
>> > here.
>> > We love
>> > > our house, the neighborhood and the beauty of Duke Street, but
>> > something
>> > > needs to be done about the traffic.
>> > >
>> > > If I understand correctly, NC DOT was unwilling to lower the
>> > speed
>> > limit and
>> > > add traffic calming on Duke and Gregson, and the only real
>>recourse
>> > was to
>> > > have the city assume maintenance of the roads, at which point
>>lower
>> > speeds
>> > > and traffic calming would be possible. Is this correct?
>> > (Ironically... our
>> > > Duke Park neighbors have faced some similar stonewalling from NC
>>DOT
>> > on the
>> > > dangers of pedestrians crossing Roxboro St. to get to the park.
>>And
>> > as I
>> > > believe Barry Ragin pointed out on another listserv, the design
>> > of
>> > the
>> > > pedestrian crosswalks at Duke & I-85 is yet another death waiting
>>to
>> > > happen.)
>> > >
>> > > There was discussion more recently about an idea that I believe
>> > Alison
>> > > Carpenter brought back after seeing in action in Arlington, Va.,
>>for
>> > > intensive street-pavement markings on Duke/Gregson to slow
>> > traffic
>> > > visually. I believe a couple of blocks have been in "test mode."
>>Does
>> > > anyone know where this stands, or who in the city is evaluating
>>the
>> > impact
>> > > of same?
>> > >
>> > > Finally, I don't think there's any "real" solution until the East
>>End
>> > > Connector gets built. I'm thrilled it's on the TIP plan and is
>>moving
>> > > forward, but I was concerned by a couple of the quotes in the
>>recent
>> > > Herald-Sun article. Are there any showstopper issues to be
>> > concerned about
>> > > with the EEC? (NC DOT is holding a public information session on
>> > Jan. 30 --
>> > > I would like to suggest that we try to turn out and make sure our
>> > voices as
>> > > residents are heard about the Connector.)
>> > >
>> > > In a way, I feel terrible writing about such prosaic concerns as
>> > traffic
>> > > calming and bypasses on a morning when a life was lost up the
>> > street. But I
>> > > fear that if we don't speak out now, and loudly, it's just a
>>matter
>> > of time
>> > > until this happens to somebody else.
>> > >
>> > > -- Kevin Davis
>> > > 1404 N. Duke
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Kevin Davis
>> > > ksdavis at ...
>> > > kevin_davis at ...
>> > >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________________
>> > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Kevin Davis
>> > ksdavis at gmail.com <mailto:ksdavis at gmail.com>
>> > kevin_davis at post.harvard.edu <mailto:kevin_davis at post.harvard.edu>
>> > __._,_.___
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>><http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12ickfmv8/M=493064.9803219.10510212.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064406:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1168971667/A=3848542/R=0/SIG=12ban20bv/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42416/*http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/y360/?v=f>
>> >
>> > Create a blog, web
>> >
>> > site, and more.
>> >
>> > .
>> >
>> > __,_._,___
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>_______________________________________________
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Valentine's Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
>
>
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