[Durham INC] Billboard proposal discussions

Wed Jan 21 20:04:36 EST 2009

As far as I am concerned, no.  The city cannot enforce an ordinance that
presumes to regulate the content of advertising speech.  If Fairway wants to
make donations, that's great. It's their choice.  But they shouldn't be
allowed to buy special treatment under the zoning code with donations to
worthy causes.  I told the Eno River Association the same thing years ago
when it supported a terrible zone change in return for a developer's promise
to donate a few acres of bottom land to the Eno State Park.  If we go for
this billboard thing we are essentially saying those with something to trade
get breaks under the code.  Those who don't, like ordinary homeowners, get
nothing.

Is INC for neighborhoods anymore?  I wonder.

Tom Miller

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From: inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org [mailto:inc-list-bounces at rtpnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike - Hotmail
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:56 PM
To: TheOcean1 at aol.com; inc-list at rtpnet.org
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] Billboard proposal discussions

I wonder what the dozens and dozens of non-profits, bond referendum
proponents, the school merger initiative and other benefactors of the
generosity of the industry (not just Fairway) over the years would say about
"There is no public need for billboards........."  or future parents of
abducted children, confused elderly or the mentally disabled and lost
regarding the benefit they provide the community?

While I have never directly benefited from those donations,  I believe there
are some people out there that have,  and quite possibly will.

Isn't there room for compromise somewhere here?

Does it hurt to try and find out, if there is?

Mike Shiflett

----- Original Message ----- 

From: TheOcean1 at aol.com 

To: inc-list at rtpnet.org 

Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:22 AM

Subject: Re: [Durham INC] Billboard proposal

Tom

I agree with much of what you've said, one exception is the first sentence,
"I'm not sure I understand why some of you say we don't know what Fairway's
proposal is."

I'd say we only know what it "was", before they pulled it. More than agree
with your comment, "suppose they may change it at some point in the future",
as that would seem like the only logical reason for pulling it.

Since we both suspect they'll propose something different, I also agree we
shouldn't worry about that until it happens.

Until that time, valuable dialogue is still possible. I shouldn't need to
remind Tom Miller, Durham wouldn't be having any discussion. You were
foresighted enough 20 years ago to make Durham a very different county in
regards to billboards, so the contrast is already visible as you pass the
county lines. 

Get crazy foresighted with me for a minute, imagine a drive from Greensboro
to Durham 100 years in the future. Hard to imagine what we are seeing! But I
bet we see those same electronic billboards in Burlington that sprang up
there a century ago, without the discussions they had in Durham, or the
efforts two decades before that gave rise to any say in the matter.

Our laws were crafted wisely, with the intent of getting rid of billboards,
allowing them to remain only for their "useful Lifetime", so as not to cause
a financial hardship for the owners. After it effectively "falls of it's own
accord", no new billboards would be built to replace it. Sounds good. So
eventually, maybe not in our lifetimes, Durham would be billboard
free....... hypothetically.

I think 100 years from now, they will still be standing. Can't describe what
is behind them, but all the Burlington billboards are now electronic, and
there's a major contrast when you cross the county line into Durham. The
billboards are still there, but they are the old fashioned ones, with paper
and light shining onto them, instead of from them. Maybe this is good, and
gives us an antique feel.

But why are they still here one hundred years later? 

We know today, that we don't want to see these things past their useful
lifetime, but we also don't want to have an eye sore sitting beside the
highway while we watch it rot for it's last few decades. So our current laws
give the industry the right to spend 25% of each billboard's value each year
on upkeep.

That meant they can replace one pole this year, and another pole next year,
and a face the following year, thereby allowing them to rebuild the whole
sign often enough.... they are still gonna be here in the year 2109.

Maybe they look awful. Paper might become very expensive in a nearly
paperless society, so maybe they stretch the use way too far. Maybe the
faded billboards are a unique feature, perhaps non existent in other
counties, and a cool funky welcome to Durham, like cows on top of our
stores. 

Maybe the paper billboards will no longer be a viable business due only to
the cost of paper. And we'll credit the extinction to paper costs, not the
laws we have now.

I'll bet 100 years from now we'll still be longing to see the trees, or
what's left of them, behind almost all of Durham's current billboards. A few
more will be gone, due to us buying one or two for a road, or a tornado
coming through, but we'll still have the mass majority of them, and no
better idea what their expected lifetimes are than we know today.

Maybe then the industry will approach our great grand kids and offer to chop
down all their existing signs in exchange for a single electronic one at
each end of our county. And make every sixth message a Durham controlled ad.
Then Durham's distinction would be being billboard free, but not if our
great grandkids refuse to even listen to the industry's proposals.

Same thing is true today. If we don't come to a resolution, our kids should
make the call, or their kids, or our great grandkids 100 years from now.

But each generation should do two things, listen to proposals, lest we stick
ourselves with laws that might not work in the future. Certainly won't hurt
us to re-examine the laws every so often, to see that they are still the
best choice, once every 25-50 years, or maybe every 20 years, meaning we're
about due.

Two things, listen to proposals when they are put on the table, and don't
worry too much until that happens. Listening never hurts you, not listening
is rarely the best choice, and you're almost always better off without
worry, too.

Sorry so long,

Bill Anderson

In a message dated 1/20/2009 6:27:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tom-miller1 at nc.rr.com writes:

I'm not sure I understand why some of you say we don't know what Fairway's
proposal is.  They have put it in writing to the city and county twice and
they explained it to us at the last INC meeting.  Assuming that they meant
what they said, I think I understand their proposal very clearly.  While I
suppose they may change it at some point in the future, I'm not going to
worry about that until it happens.

Based on what I know, which is what Fairway has told us, I oppose their
proposal to change Durham's zoning ordinances to allow them and their
competitors to upgrade their billboards.  I oppose the proposal on all its
points.  Remember, under the proposal, some signs would change to the
flashing variety, some would be moved, and others, pole-mounted, would be
put on steel masts.  All of the billboards in question are nonconforming
uses and they shouldn't be upgraded.  It isn't fair and it is contrary to
Durham's sound and successful policy.  There is no public need for
billboards and there is no compelling reason to allow this industry (and
especially not its dominant firm) better than we treat any other citizen who
could make more money if he could get special treatment under the zoning
ordinances.

Tom Miller

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