[Durham INC] [C+H Neighborhood] Copper Theft

Thu Mar 12 21:25:22 EDT 2009

You guys are making my head spin...

Melissa (Rooney)

--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Colin Crossman <crc128 at gmail.com> wrote:
From: Colin Crossman <crc128 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] [C+H Neighborhood] Copper Theft
To: "RW Pickle" <randy at 27beverly.com>
Cc: mindysolie at aol.com, inc-list at durhaminc.org, theocean1 at aol.com
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 6:28 PM

Your double-taxation point is a red herring. If taxation worked that
way, then retailers like WalMart wouldn't have to pay income tax, as
their income comes from the sale of goods which are taxed by sales tax
(at the point of final sale), and their workers all pay income tax.
Indeed, anyone who produces anything wouldn't have to pay tax, since
only raw materials can be obtained without sales tax (or an
exemption).

Your point is incorrect since the income tax is a tax on income and
labor, not on the goods themselves.

And we're not talking about chump change, we're talking about hundreds
of thousands of dollars.  A single container (40') can hold about 32
tons.  At today's scrap rates, each container will cost a recycler
about $75,000 to fill. That's a lot of nickles and dimes of tax
evasion that the state is leaving on the table.

-crc

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:28 PM, RW Pickle <randy at 27beverly.com> wrote:
> Tax on recycled items is double taxation because the tax was
> paid/collected when sold (sales tax). It's true for HVAC copper just
as it
> is with aluminum soda cans. It's true it would be income (if taxed) to
the
> party selling it, but if it's that big of a deal, the re-cycler has
that
> info already in their paperwork and could provide it to any authority that
> wishes to chase the nickels and dimes. It's not a loop hole, it's
double
> taxation and may even thwart recycling efforts.
>
> Income from the sell of stolen  copper should be small at best. There are
> many bigger fish to fry...
>
> RWP
> 27 Beverly
>
>> Randy,
>>
>> If you examine it closely, it isn't a tax on recycling, it is a
tax on
>> income, income which is currently evading tax illegally.  It is
>> currently the responsibility of the income receiver to declare it,
>> however it is only the law-abiding (like you) who follow the rules and
>> properly declare their income. This simply causes the seller to
>> formally recognize their income - just like the rest of us.
>>
>> Nothing special here, it looks like it's just closing a loophole
which
>> allows illegal activity to flourish, and raising funds for the state
>> in the process.
>>
>> -crc
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:27 PM, RW Pickle <randy at 27beverly.com>
wrote:
>>> So now, even though many recycling efforts have failed, we want to
>>> further
>>> "tax" the recycling industry? I understand the desire of
this, but
>>> recycling should be rewarded and not penalized. And adding to the
burden
>>> is not the way to do this. You already have to have a valid photo
ID to
>>> recycle metals (at valid recycling operations) and personal
information
>>> is
>>> gathered in that process. What's the purpose of the
legislation when
>>> thieves can just haul their booty to VA (like the manhole cover
thefts
>>> that occurred last year)? These are thefts of personal property
(from
>>> private property typically) and do not effect the common nature of
>>> city-wide neighborhoods. Home owners insurance generally covers
the
>>> theft
>>> so there is no public loss. It's not a neighborhood issue when
only
>>> individuals are the ones involved... And although I'll suggest
this with
>>> no supporting evidence, it may be that the individual property
owners
>>> are
>>> involved in the thefts themselves. It would be a lot cheaper to
pay the
>>> insurance premiums than replace a HVAC system in a property for
sell.
>>> Not
>>> may homes have ever had the copper removed while occupied...
>>>
>>> In conversations just now with the Captain of District 3, he said
copper
>>> theft has almost disappeared. He didn't recall one in the last
30 days.
>>> And he didn't recall it being an issue across the City when
the whole
>>> Police force leadership met last. There are more car thefts across
this
>>> City than copper thefts. And this is every day... So are junk
yards
>>> next?
>>>
>>> This is another "feel good" issue that is best left out
of our
>>> Legislative
>>> Delegation's hands. I'll mention this again, a far better
issue for them
>>> to take forward is a communication/database system where all local
law
>>> enforcement can find out information. As an example, Durham County
>>> Sheriff's Department does not have access to the P2P system
that Durham
>>> City Police uses. And as you spread out across our region, you
have
>>> Orange, Wake, Person, etc. that do not have the same access of
>>> information
>>> sharing. The week before Eve Carson was shot, those involved were
over
>>> in
>>> Orange County (they didn't live there) and were stopped for
another
>>> issue.
>>> Had Orange County been able to see they were on probation in
Durham,
>>> they
>>> would have been in jail and not involved in the Carson death. To
me,
>>> this
>>> is one of the most pressing law enforcement issues that would make
all
>>> of
>>> our streets safer.
>>>
>>> Build a metal box around your HVAC ststem to protect it from theft
if
>>> it's
>>> an issue, don't ask our Legislative Delegation to waste time
on personal
>>> issues...
>>>
>>> RWP
>>> 27 Beverly
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think this is an excellent resolution. In addition to being
a
>>>> neighborhood
>>>> issue, it is also a crime issue. Therefor (in my opinion) it
should  be
>>>> endorsed by all five of Durham's Partners Against Crime
organizations,
>>>> Durham
>>>> Businesses Against Crime, and InterNeighborhood Council.
>>>>
>>>> Since I'm not subscribed to PAC 1, 3, 4, & 5, perhaps
someone will
>>>> forward
>>>> this suggestion to the others.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Anderson
>>>> PAC2
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 3/12/2009 12:02:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight
Time,
>>>> Ken at KenGasch.com writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please take a gander at resolution below. Authored by Colin
 Crossman
>>>> and
>>>> me..
>>>>
>>>> Would like for Cleveland-Holloway to sponsor.   (i.e. place
in hopper
>>>> for
>>>> INC)
>>>>
>>>> Comments?  Questions?  Go,  no-Go?
>>>>
>>>> Ken  Gasch
>>>>
********************************************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Whereas,  the current laws respecting the theft of copper,
including
>>>> the latest  revisions passed by the North Carolina General
Assembly in
>>>> _____, have not  been successful in stemming the tide of
copper theft;
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> Whereas,  though the economic downturn has decreased the
price of
>>>> copper, the  magnitude of the problem is only increasing, and
the
>>>> injury done to the  community is substantial; and
>>>>
>>>> Whereas, the State of North Carolina and  the several
counties and
>>>> municipalities are facing an extreme budget  shortfall, and
that such a
>>>> shortfall is not helped by the fact that metal  recyclers do
not report
>>>> metal sales to the taxing authority, and this  results in a
tremendous
>>>> amount of untaxed economic activity;
>>>>
>>>> IT IS  HEREBY RESOLVED that the Durham InterNeighborhood
Council
>>>> express the sense  of the neighborhoods to the Durham Elected
Officials
>>>> and the Durham State  Delegation that copper theft remains a
problem
>>>> and that the state should  look into alternatives which cause
all metal
>>>> transactions to be reported to  the Revenue Office, linked
with a valid
>>>> tax id number of the metal seller,  for all transactions
above  $10.00.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
>>>> You  received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> "Cleveland Holloway Neighborhood" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email  to
>>>> ClevelandHollowayNeighborhood at googlegroups.com
>>>> To unsubscribe from this  group, send email to
>>>> ClevelandHollowayNeighborhood+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>>>> For more  options, visit this group at
>>>>
http://groups.google.com/group/ClevelandHollowayNeighborhood?hl=en
>>>> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours
in just 2
>>>> easy
>>>> steps!
>>>>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219671244x1201345076/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
>>>> %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Durham INC Mailing List
>>>> list at durham-inc.org
>>>> http://www.durham-inc.org/list.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
====================================================================
>>> This e-mail, and any attachments to it, contains PRIVILEGED AND
>>> CONFIDENTIAL information intended only for the use of the
addressee(s)
>>> or
>>> entity named on the e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient
of
>>> this
>>> e-mail, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to
the
>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading,
>>> dissemination or copying of this e-mail in error is strictly
prohibited.
>>> If you have received this electronic  transmission in error,
please
>>> notify
>>> me by telephone (919-489-0576) or by electronic mail
>>> (pickle at patriot.net)
>>> immediately.
>>>
=====================================================================
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Durham INC Mailing List
>>> list at durham-inc.org
>>> http://www.durham-inc.org/list.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Crossman Properties, LLC
>> 762 Ninth St #591
>> Durham, NC 27705
>> www.CrossmanProperties.com
>>
>
>
> ====================================================================
> This e-mail, and any attachments to it, contains PRIVILEGED AND
> CONFIDENTIAL information intended only for the use of the addressee(s) or
> entity named on the e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> e-mail, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading,
> dissemination or copying of this e-mail in error is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this electronic  transmission in error, please
notify
> me by telephone (919-489-0576) or by electronic mail (pickle at patriot.net)
> immediately.
> =====================================================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> Durham INC Mailing List
> list at durham-inc.org
> http://www.durham-inc.org/list.html
>
_______________________________________________
Durham INC Mailing List
list at durham-inc.org
http://www.durham-inc.org/list.html

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/private/inc-list/attachments/20090312/34032532/attachment.htm>