[Durham INC] Yard Waste Carts: INC-list Digest, Vol 125, Issue 23
John Martin
bulldurhamnc at yahoo.com
Tue May 26 17:04:17 EDT 2015
Mr. Long,
I'm afraid I don't find this a very satisfactory explanation. In essence you're charging all of us the same amount because it's too much trouble to separate your accounts into those who bought their carts, and those who rented them. But your department created this problem in the first place by switching from selling carts to renting them.
I also find the charges far more than are necessary to cover replacement and maintenance. My waste cart is marked "Otto" and says it is 95 gallons. The yard waste cart is the same size. Lo and behold, I can find them on the internet for less than $90:
Otto Mobile Trash Container - 95 Gallon Black
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I've had my cart for 17 years and it's still in good condition. Had I been paying a rental charge of $1.50, I would have already paid $306 in rental fees for a cart worth 90 bucks.
Your rental fees are too high and you want to charge rent on something you don't own. Yet you tell us, "we can't ask taxpayers who don't subscribe to supplement the cost." I wish you showed as much regard for the people who do participate in the program as you do for those who don't.
John Martin From: "Long, Donald" <Donald.Long at durhamnc.gov>
To: "inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net" <inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net>
Cc: "Thompson, Beverly B." <Beverly.Thompson at durhamnc.gov>; "Harris, Casey" <Casey.Harris at durhamnc.gov>; "Ferguson, Bo" <Bo.Ferguson at durhamnc.gov>; "Blalock, Amy" <Amy.Blalock at durhamnc.gov>; "Fenton, Wayne" <Wayne.Fenton at durhamnc.gov>; "Moffitt, Don" <Don.Moffitt at durhamnc.gov>; "Hart-Leak, Michelle" <Michelle.Hart-Leak at Durhamnc.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] Yard Waste Carts: INC-list Digest, Vol 125, Issue 23
We truly regret the implied financial imposition to subscribers who purchased carts, but once you purchased your cart we still provided replacement and maintenance service for the cart. Every year the cart depreciates and depending on when you purchased your cart you may have gotten the purchase value out of the cart already and we will continue to provide the replacement and maintenance service. The reasons for the changes are twofold. First of all the program had to at least pay for itself since we can't ask taxpayers who don't subscribe to supplement the cost and secondly, we had a strong need to change our billing system in order to get all of our subscribers on one payment schedule for the sake of efficiency. I hope I've made this understandable, but if not feel free to contact me directly.
Donald M Long
Director of Solid Waste Management
City of Durham, NC
919-560-4186 ext. 32222
919-201-0258-Cell
-----Original Message-----
From: Blalock, Amy
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 3:29 PM
To: Fenton, Wayne; Long, Donald; Hart-Leak, Michelle; Harris, Casey
Cc: Thompson, Beverly B.; Ferguson, Bo
Subject: Yard Waste Carts: INC-list Digest, Vol 125, Issue 23
See below conversation on the INC list serve. Councilman Moffitt also comments (see very last post).
-----Original Message-----
From: INC-list [mailto:inc-list-bounces at lists.deltaforce.net] On Behalf Of inc-list-request at lists.deltaforce.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 3:20 PM
Today's Topics:
1. Yard Waste Carts (Myers Sugg)
2. Re: Yard Waste Carts (Natalie Spring)
3. Re: Yard Waste Carts (John Martin)
4. Re: Yard Waste Carts (John Dagenhart)
5. Re: Yard Waste Carts (Myers Sugg)
6. Re: Yard Waste Carts (B Tucker)
7. Re: Yard Waste Carts (Don Moffitt)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 18:03:54 +0000
From: Myers Sugg <andrew.sugg at duke.edu>
Dear Neighbors:
You may have received the letter today from Donald Long, Solid Waste Director regarding changes in the City's Yard Waste program. One thing in particular caught my attention. Longtime residents may have, like me, purchased brown yard waste carts back when the City started the brown cart, weekly pickup program, ten plus years ago. The City is now converting everyone to the rental program, and charging an additional $1.50 per month, per cart even for those who purchased their cart outright. I personally don't think this is fair. As I understand it, new customers are required to rent their carts, but for those who started early, you paid, and now you will be required to pay rent for the same plastic bin. IF rental is the only option, then I think a refund should be in order for those who previously paid. If I remember correctly, carts were around $50-$60 each, but I'm not certain. If anyone can remember what the purchase rate was previously, please let me know.
I am of the opinion that composting is best, but for those who have small yards, and large limbs/sticks, it is not always easy to find a place for them. I appreciate the robust yard waste program the City has. When it started, collection was every other week, and the fee was rolled into your property tax rate. The City pulled it out the tax rate and began the fee for service sticker/subscriber program. Initially it was $50, then $60, and now it will basically be $90 per year. That's a significant amount in my opinion. I own 3 carts, and as such, I would pay an additional $54.00 per year to rent something I already purchased. Does anyone else see the problem here?
Comments would be appreciated. Hopefully someone at the City will also see this and offer some insight.
Myers Sugg, James St, TLNA
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 14:12:42 -0400
From: Natalie Spring <natalie.spring at gmail.com>
To: Myers Sugg <andrew.sugg at duke.edu>
Cc: "inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net" <inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net>
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] Yard Waste Carts
Message-ID:
<CACieZGmWq2XPUc_KFCDGr0B8q__+h=ZXM6adXOW7M4PpXcLXtg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Annoyed as well - I bought my brown cart years ago and received the letter recently. I still think this program should be universal in Durham, not an opt in fee based offering.
Natalie
801 Cleveland St
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 18:15:45 +0000 (UTC)
From: John Martin <bulldurhamnc at yahoo.com>
Myers,
There was a fair amount of chatter about this on the Old North Durham list serve on Saturday since a number of us got the letter then. You will also notice that you are no longer allowed to discontinue your participation in the program. Councilman Eugene Brown said that he is looking into this with the City Manager. We'll see what they say. I doubt that any of this is legal.
John
Thank you so much. I am still sitting here trying to understand the logic behind this. How is it we have bought the thing many times over and now we have to RENT it I don't get it.
Robin on West Seeman.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 23, 2015, at 6:10 PM, "Eugene Brown?teton at earthlink.net?[oldnorthdurham]" <oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I am looking into this with the City Manager.
Eugene Brown On May 23, 2015, at 2:05 PM,
Nancy,
I got the same letter this morning. In addition to charging me rent on something I already own, the City also announces that the Yard Waste Program is like the roach motel: you can't check out: "Please note that cancellation of yard waste service is only allowed for customers who are moving and no longer need the service and customers closing their utility water account." So now I have to continue to have yard waste service whether I want it or not, and whether I use it or not.
I bought my yard waste container back in 1998, but I hadn't used the service for several years. Last summer, since I anticipated more yard waste than normal, I signed up again. Little did I know that I had signed up in perpetuity.
This is a small matter, but it is mind-boggling that the City of Durham government can even devise a scheme like this.
John
Hi neighbors,
I'm assuming any of you who are solid waste customers of the City have or will receive the letter we just got. In it it informs us that "Effective July 1, all carts now have a monthly rental fee regardless of past purchase history." So that means that we get to now pay a rental fee for carts that we previously purchased from the City. Excuse my acronym, but wtf??
I see on their FAQ that they are expecting carts to need to be replaced, as 2008 was the last time carts were available for purchase. Well I believe that our cart has a few years left in it, and it burns me up to rent what we own.
Does anyone know if this change is something approved by the city manager? City council? Who decides this??
Thanks for any info you may have.
Nancy Holliman W. Lynch St.
Message: 4
Myers: I have the same problem with this plan from the City. If they need to charge more for the service that's one thing. Let's take a hard look at that.
But please don't tell me you're going to charge me rent for something I've already paid for.
John Dagenhart, PE
President
Dagenhart Consulting Services,PC and
Clapp Research Associates, PC
1058 W. Club Blvd., Suite 220B
Durham, NC 27701
Office: 919-908-0227
Cell: 919-247-4236
j.b.dagenhart at ieee.org
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 18:53:58 +0000
John/John:
So if I decide to pay a yard service to take care of my yard, and remove all yard waste from my site, I can't unsubscribe to the program? I missed that in my quick read. I think this may boil down to a reduction in funding for solid waste, or a program that costs more. The explanation though leaves big holes in it. If the cost is really $90 per year to run the program, then that is what they need to say, and explain why. If $90 is more than I can or want to pay, then I should be able to leave the program should I want to. Again, '?m appreciative the City offers this program, but unlike water and sewer requirements for healthy and safety reasons, I can't see yard waste removal rising to that level of importance. I personally would be ok with less frequent collection if it would save any money.
I would also expect rental fees to be accounted for separately internally. Co-mingling of the service fee and rental fee should not be allowed.
Myers
Myers Sugg
Financial Analyst
Fuqua School of Business
Duke University
Box 90120
Durham NC 27708
919-660-8018
919-660-7960
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 14:53:18 -0400
From: B Tucker <b.t at mindspring.com>
To: John Dagenhart <jdag at clappresearch.com>
Cc: 'Myers Sugg' <andrew.sugg at duke.edu>,
<inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net>
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] Yard Waste Carts
Message-ID: <flerae7uro1rpcojagxa5j6d.1432666398142 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have three yard waste carts and hope that the city offers to buy them back.
Beverly Tucker
Englewood
Sent from my Goofy Verizon Wireless DROID
------------------------------
We regret the implied financial imposition to customers who purchased carts, however, the fact is even though you purchased your cart we would still provide replacement and maintenance free of charge. We now have to capture those costs in order not to operate at a loss and to simplify our billing system by putting everyone's bill on a monthly basis in the water bill. The value of your cart depreciates over time and we will continue to provide replacement/maintenance for your cart but we have to pass that cost on to the subscribers since we can't support a voluntary subscriber service with the tax dollars of residents who don't subscribe to the service.
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 15:19:45 -0400
From: Don Moffitt <don.moffitt at gmail.com>
To: Myers Sugg <andrew.sugg at duke.edu>
Cc: "inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net" <inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net>
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] Yard Waste Carts
The letter is not well written; subscribers to yard service can cancel their service at the end of the fiscal year (June 30). It's an annual service, from July 1 to June 30--once subscribed you're in for the year unless you move.
I feel your pain and did not have an opportunity to discuss or vote on this change.
Don
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