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Not that I have much hope for the ones supported by the PA</div>
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<span style="font-weight: 700;">Durham County Board of County Commissioners</span></h3>
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<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Regular Session, Monday, December 11, 2023, at 7:00 p.m.</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">In-Person and Virtual Session</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 71, 127);"><u><a href="https://www.dconc.gov/county-departments/departments-a-e/board-of-commissioners/commissioner-meetings-and-announcements/bocc-agendas-video-library" target="_blank" id="OWA30451a97-63c1-c859-e702-72237cabab80" class="OWAAutoLink" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-cke-saved-href="https://www.dconc.gov/county-departments/departments-a-e/board-of-commissioners/commissioner-meetings-and-announcements/bocc-agendas-video-library" data-linkindex="26" style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(0, 71, 127);">Link
to the Durham County Board of County Commissioners Agenda</a></u></span></p>
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<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">The Board of County Commissioners will hold public hearings on </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">December 11,
2023, at the meeting beginning at 7:00 p.m. </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">in the Commissioners' Chambers, 2nd Floor, Durham County Administration I, 200 E. Main Street.</span></p>
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<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">UDO Text Amendment:</span></p>
<ul style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 1.4em; padding-left: 3em; list-style-type: disc; flex-direction: column; display: flex; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<li style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; margin-bottom: 0.35em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Simplifying Codes for Affordable Development (TC2200002)</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> A
privately initiated text amendment proposes technical revisions and major policy changes to various provisions of the Unified Development Ordinance (UDO).</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br>
</span></li><li style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; margin-bottom: 0.35em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Omnibus 18 (TC2300001)</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> updates
multiple sections of the Unified Development Ordinance, including clarifying terminology, fixing inconsistencies, expanding upon existing definitions, and adding new definitions.</span></li><li style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; margin-bottom: 0.35em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Pedestrian Mall Text Amendment (TC2300004)</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> proposes
to increase the maximum allowable width of pedestrian malls from 50 to 75 feet to allow for more street level activities like dining, seating, and playing areas, larger green space and landscaped areas, and greater transitions between development and adjacent
areas. </span></li><li style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; margin-bottom: 0.35em; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Conservation Subdivision Text Amendment (TC2300005)</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"> proposes
minor amendments to paragraphs 6.2.4A and 6.2.4B to clarify the intent and application of paragraph 6.2.4 of the Unified Development Ordinance.</span></li></ul>
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<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 700; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Public Participation:</span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Residents
may attend in person, via Zoom, or watch live on the County’s </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 71, 127); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><u><a href="https://www.dconc.gov/county-departments/departments-a-e/board-of-commissioners/commissioner-meetings-and-announcements/bocc-agendas-video-library" target="_blank" id="OWA3313ea27-e07f-5f67-7ed3-1c78c74eee64" class="OWAAutoLink" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-cke-saved-href="https://www.dconc.gov/county-departments/departments-a-e/board-of-commissioners/commissioner-meetings-and-announcements/bocc-agendas-video-library" data-linkindex="27" style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(0, 71, 127); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">website</a></u></span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> and
on DTN. Seating is limited inside the Chambers due to social distancing guidelines, and is on a first-come, first-serve basis, with priority given to County staff. A low-capacity overflow seating area is provided in the lobby on the second floor of the Administration
Building. Individuals seated in the lobby can view the meeting on screens. Residents who wish to observe meetings are encouraged to continue using the virtual option.</span></p>
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<span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Residents may deliver comments on agenda items for the meeting in person or virtually. Please refer to the following web page for ways to participate: </span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 71, 127);"><u><a href="https://www.dconc.gov/county-departments/departments-a-e/board-of-commissioners/commissioner-meetings-and-announcements" target="_blank" id="OWA9f7aad01-1c7b-126d-5fdf-ea446cbbb728" class="OWAAutoLink" rel="noopener noreferrer" data-auth="NotApplicable" data-cke-saved-href="https://www.dconc.gov/county-departments/departments-a-e/board-of-commissioners/commissioner-meetings-and-announcements" data-linkindex="28" style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(0, 71, 127);">Commissioner
Meetings</a></u></span><span style="letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">. The Zoom meeting link will be posted during the week before the scheduled meeting. </span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> INC-list <inc-list-bounces@lists.deltaforce.net> on behalf of John Martin via INC-list <inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 2:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Debra Hawkins <dhawkins913311@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> inc listserv <inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Durham INC] Outcome of SCAD hearing?</font>
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</div>
<div dir="auto">That’s a kind of strangled version of a more elegant quote from George Bernard Shawn:
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<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51); font-family:"Open Sans",Arial,"sans serif"; font-size:20px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.</span></div>
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<div><font color="#333333" face="Open Sans, Arial, sans serif"><span style="font-size:20px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">John</span></font></div>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 21, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Debra Hawkins <dhawkins913311@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="auto">A friend in my youth after a difficult and disappointing vote outcome quoth "America gets the government it deserves." Decades on it appears to still be true, and maybe something to think about...most of all for those who first (as well as later)
endorsed or voted for representatives that led to the current outcome, and who did not serve the will or the future interests of the people who voted for (or last night stood before) them, as their proxy voice in decision making. There were other people willing
to serve, and if they had been in those seats perhaps the outcome would have been different. Lauds to those reps who did listen to the voice of constituents and placed their interests and values first last night.
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<div dir="auto">D</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 10:19 AM Mary Molina via INC-list <<a href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>This article is all I've seen on last night's vote:
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<div><a href="https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/durham-county/article281897928.html?fbclid=IwAR09X1qHq2BY7nygAAgDmq-FhWHexs_3VXlcaDXBKatLBcUo0LuVQebPaKw_aem_Aajbt_NKa8F7AXNfT0oRl-bArLBktPTC_8ZgmEnZgIbgVRj2cVrvhceITzgCdXNU5WM" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/durham-county/article281897928.html?fbclid=IwAR09X1qHq2BY7nygAAgDmq-FhWHexs_3VXlcaDXBKatLBcUo0LuVQebPaKw_aem_Aajbt_NKa8F7AXNfT0oRl-bArLBktPTC_8ZgmEnZgIbgVRj2cVrvhceITzgCdXNU5WM</a>
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Im interested in seeing how the new Council and Mayor-Elect will handle the letter Nayor O'Neal read last night from Dan Blue re:the investigation opened around Habitat having been a named applicant on the SCAD text amendment. </div>
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<div>M.<br>
<div><a href="https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Sent
from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br>
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<p style="font-size:15px; color:#715ffa; padding-top:15px; margin-top:0">On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, 10:07 AM, Chuck Catotti <<a href="mailto:chuck.catotti@duke.edu" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chuck.catotti@duke.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<div dir="ltr">The Herald missed the point. The headline is about parking. Then mentions SCAD further in the article.</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 21, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Joshua Allen <<a href="mailto:allen.joshua@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">allen.joshua@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">There is absolutely no news coverage on this. I checked the N&O, WRAL, Herald Sun, and the IndyWeek. Nothing. No wonder this council can get away with anything it wants. The decimation of local news has destroyed our democracy.<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 9:54 AM <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:bruce@paintingsbybruce.com" target="_blank">bruce@paintingsbybruce.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<p>That's pretty simple. There are certain rich white men who feel entitled to special treatment and demand that we give it to them (maybe you can think of some examples). Such men always get special treatment as long as they can find just enough people in
positions of power who lack the courage to say no to them. That's why.</p>
<p>'twas ever thus. </p>
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<p>Bruce </p>
<p id="x_m_8657147711877662974yiv3328578637m_-8550589624582327055reply-intro">On 2023-11-21 09:35, Stephen Knill wrote:</p>
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<div>My most important takeaway was the "fours" constant reference to needing to vote on something last night. Their rationale was that this had gone on too long. For whom?
<div>It seems they felt they owed the Proponents a vote. Why?
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<span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span style="font-weight:bold">Stephen Knill</span><br clear="none">
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<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Mobile <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect">+1 917 620 4941</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:knillsj@gmail.com" target="_blank">knillsj@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
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<div>Sent from my iPhone</div>
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On Nov 21, 2023, at 9:18 AM, Mimi Kessler <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:mimikessler1@gmail.com" target="_blank">mimikessler1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>Sure. But we all have to review the recording to have any idea. </div>
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<div>The two new council people were there in chambers the whole time. But I doubt they could keep up with Johnson's rattled-off numbers. Instead of conferring with colleagues, she sat in her seat preparing all of what she said. She is the puppeteer and while
she will not be on council after last night, she has promised she will still "run things".
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<div>And lots of people left last night saying that they would have voted differently if they had seen what they saw last night. Jim Anthony was brilliant in postponing the vote until after the election.
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<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 9:08 AM Elizabeth Conroy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:conroyliz@gmail.com" target="_blank">conroyliz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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At next week's INC meeting, can we discuss the problematic items that passed so we can ask new Council members to bring up some items again?<br clear="none">
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On Tuesday, November 21, 2023, tom miller <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:miller.tom2022@gmail.com" target="_blank">miller.tom2022@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<p>They passed all but a handful of provisions<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><strong>From:</strong> INC-list <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:inc-list-bounces@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank">inc-list-bounces@lists.deltaforce.net</a>>
<strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Elizabeth Conroy<br clear="none">
<strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, November 21, 2023 8:05 AM<br clear="none">
<strong>To:</strong> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank">
inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a><br clear="none">
<strong>Subject:</strong> [Durham INC] Outcome of SCAD hearing?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>Can someone tell me the outcome of the SCAD hearing last night? I left at the break at 11 pm before Council members discussed and voted.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Thank you, Liz Conroy, Colony Park<u></u><u></u></p>
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-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Liz Conroy, Ed.D.<br clear="none">
919-493-1238 (H) 919-564-6179 (C)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:conroyliz@gmail.com" target="_blank">conroyliz@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.google.com/maps/search/2811*Welcome*Dr.*Durham,*NC*27705?entry=gmail&source=g__;KysrKys!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPZYwsF08$" target="_blank">2811
Welcome Dr.</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.google.com/maps/search/2811*Welcome*Dr.*Durham,*NC*27705?entry=gmail&source=g__;KysrKys!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPZYwsF08$" target="_blank">Durham,
NC 27705</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>Liz Conroy, Ed.D.<br clear="none">
919-493-1238 (H) 919-564-6179 (C)</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:conroyliz@gmail.com" target="_blank">conroyliz@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
2811 Welcome Dr.<br clear="none">
Durham, NC 27705</div>
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_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
INC Website: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPrVk6FdQ$" target="_blank">
https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</a><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Durham INC Mailing List<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a><br clear="none">
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<div>Mimi Kessler</div>
<div>919-599-2892</div>
<div>"Democracy is not a spectator sport" - John Deen</div>
<div>Please vote every chance you get. </div>
<div> </div>
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<span>INC Website: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPrVk6FdQ$" target="_blank">
https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</a></span><br clear="none">
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<span>Durham INC Mailing List</span><br clear="none">
<span><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a></span><br clear="none">
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<div style="margin:0px; padding:0px; font-family:monospace">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
INC Website: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPrVk6FdQ$" target="_blank">
https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</a><br clear="none">
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Durham INC Mailing List<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a><br clear="none">
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_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
INC Website: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPrVk6FdQ$" target="_blank">
https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</a><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Durham INC Mailing List<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a><br clear="none">
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<span>-- </span><br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr">Joshua<br clear="none">
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<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none">
<span>INC Website: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPrVk6FdQ$" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPrVk6FdQ$</a>
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<span>Durham INC Mailing List</span><br clear="none">
<span><a href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a></span></div>
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<span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPG14vNQg$" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list__;!!OToaGQ!s0QdgLaZanUZ9Zl74Fd-I_xkOFXsIxH3LRrH0OKDQQrQ7a6pM5Hvkao2NdOTAgh31iwi1lhCnvevM4aArpdPG14vNQg$</a>
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<div id="x_m_8657147711877662974yqtfd41425">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
INC Website: <a shape="rect" href="https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">
https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</a><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Durham INC Mailing List<br clear="none">
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<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list</a><br clear="none">
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_______________________________________________<br>
INC Website: <a href="https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</a><br>
<br>
Durham INC Mailing List<br>
<a href="mailto:inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list</a><br>
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<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>INC Website: https://sites.google.com/view/durhaminc/</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Durham INC Mailing List</span><br>
<span>inc-list@lists.deltaforce.net</span><br>
<span>https://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list</span><br>
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