INC NEWS - Digital Billboards: Fairway

Thu Dec 4 18:37:27 EST 2008

I appreciate all the hope of making nice-nice, but I think we need to be realistic about the billboard industry.  As this NPR story says:
1) Even when the billboards aren't flashing, they are intrusive
2) Billboard industry makes so much money that they sue about any restriction
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96875271

I actually like the digital billboards -- they look slick.  I just don't trust the industry.

I suspect ANYTHING we think of, they have already dealt with and figured out a clever way to get a lot more than anyone expected them to get.  For example, if we said they could go some places, would that give them legal leverage to sue so they can go anywhere?  

I believe we have a way to buy off old billboards and get them taken down.  It's just REALLY expensive -- and will be even more expensive if they can calculate the revenue they would get from digital billboards.  

If I trusted the industry, the deal I would try to do is to have them take down enough old billboards to offset the additional value they get from being able to convert the ones we allow them to keep.

Regards, pat

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:19:35 -0500
From: kjj1 at duke.edu
To: mwshiflett at hotmail.com
CC: inc-list at durhaminc.org; TheOcean1 at aol.com
Subject: Re: INC NEWS - Digital Billboards: Fairway

I would also like traffic studies about how these billboards affect
traffic safety when placed on highways. Do they distract drivers when
placed along highways? Do accident rates increase? Do they slow traffic?

Mike - Hotmail wrote:

  Skip also brings up several of the issues that I'd like to see
addressed.

  Like what the Billboard industry has to say about the decrepit
and blighted billboards that are currently negatively affecting some of
our neighborhoods.

  Is there a way to have them removed in a judicious and fair
manner?  Is there a compromise option to encourage them in places that
make sense (along highways, thorough fares, etc) rather in and around
residential neighborhoods, scenic byways or rural areas?

  What benefits are there to the citizens and visitors to (thru?)
Durham that considering digital billboard changes might provide us?

  What happens if nothing changes?

  I believe that asking these questions up front like Skip and
others are proposing isn't saying that we're either for or against
it.........we just want some more information (accurate and correct)
before passing judgement.

  Mike

    -----
Original Message ----- 
    From:
    TheOcean1 at aol.com 
    To:
    inc-list at durhaminc.org 
    Sent:
Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:05 PM
    Subject:
Re: INC NEWS - Digital Billboards: Fairway

    I
fully agree with Skip's comments below. And didn't mean to suggest we
stop discussing this issue prior to Tues night. When done in balance,
it will allow us to be better prepared, as Skip points out.

    If
I understand correctly, residents in Burlington just woke up one
morning and found a huge wooden horse already inside their compound. We
already know that won't be the case here, as evidenced by this
discussion.

    I'm
neither for, nor against, at the moment, but I see the cool advantage
we have over Burlington, in that we can see the wooden horse
approaching and have a chance to consider our options. If we decide
before the thing gets close, we've actually cut off our options.

    If
we can negotiate, for example, the right to look in the horse's belly
before we wheel it through the gate, and the right to dismantle and use
as firewood if we choose, it might make us a warmer winter!

    Skip
points to an excellent idea as a possibility, donating some ad space to
our non-profits. Let's keep that kind of thinking cap on.

    While
I'm advocating we stand in the middle of the fence until we hear all
the details, I'd certainly admit that I'd personally prefer to look at
trees than billboards on my drive through Burlington.

    But
that billboard alerting drivers that "Bubba's Country Kitchen" is off
the next exit, is what is keeping Bubba in business.

    Take
all the billboards down around Burlington, and Burlington goes broke!
Durham is a bevy of businesses of every kind. Add them all together,
and it's what Durham is, among other things. We've got Bubbas, and
Pappas, and the Carolina Theater and the new Performing Art Center,
too. We need to get travelers to get off the highway and visit us, and
support our continuing growth. 

    I
might prefer to drive through our commercial districts and see nothing
but wonderful architecture.... with no signs!  But that doesn't work,
so we allow signs. We carefully craft our laws to keep them tasteful,
and we're about to re-look at the ones that effect highway advertising.

    We
should be preparing to say what we don't want, but also what we do
want. We might be able to get those Trojans to rebuild that horse,
possibly into a bull, one that we could welcome inside the gates safely.

    Bill
Anderson

    In
a message dated 12/4/2008 2:58:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
simplelist at gmail.com writes:

      I agree with Bill
and Mike about passing judgment prior to Tuesday night, but I also see
merit to discussing the imagined possibilities. I like sharing those
possibilities with others, both positive and negative. It helps me, as
a citizen, prepare ahead of time for a meeting with unlimited possible
discussion. I'd much rather be prepared with some flushed out community
thoughts than go in there dry without having to hash out the good from
the bad. Discussion, in of itself, whether we agree with it or not, is
not bad at all.

      So, to continue
with the discussion, I think from Fairway's perspective (and my own),
promoting possible proliferation of digital billboards is a great idea.
It is an efficient way of delivering more targeted advertising to the
masses. It is also a great way to encourage increased and more flexible
revenue generation. The idea that several advertisers can be promoted
like a banner ad on a website in one single day or hour in one location
is an billboard advertiser's dream. I would highly encourage more
digital billboard use and would do everything I could to make such a
possibility occur, because it makes good business sense and it
increases profitability (even after the initial capital outlay and
maintenance of such boards). More later.

      As a potential
client, I question the efficacy of such ads, even though they will be
seen during a specific time period. I like Internet advertising the
best when it comes to tracking. Billboards, even the standard ones, are
always a crapshoot. But as a consumer, I do notice them from time to
time and have often been influenced by them. Though I ignore them most
of the time.

      As a citizen, I
think billboards are a form of blight in most cases. Their
construction, albeit sound, are not the most attractive in my opinion
and I certainly do not want a constant reminder of any sort of
billboard within eyeshot of my home. Overuse of advertising and
signage, especially in or near residential neighborhoods, is a slap in
my face and an infringement of my peace and enjoyment away from the
capitalistic world. Yet they pop up and, once up, never seem to
disappear.

      If we end up
embracing the idea and accept one or many, there are some possible
benefits like opening up the opportunity for local businesses to
advertise relatively quickly and efficiently their wares.
Organizations, non-profits, public and government agencies all are
afforded opportunity. At a price, of course, but I would suspect some
appeasement will be made to sweeten the pot by offering some gratis ops
too. That, I don't know. It makes more sense to charge for space rather
than giving it away, but if giving some away helps encourage more
acceptance, by all means, do it.

      Unfortunately, a
billboard is not necessarily an outlet for free speech. It is designed
purely for profit. Nothing more. And, really, from a business
perspective, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Though with
this technology and the embracing of digital billboards, I guess a
public access opportunity could potentially exist. Whether that would
pass is a whole other can of worms.

      I am curious to
see and hear if the lighting output (not wattage used) has improved
recently. But even with lighting contamination contained, to a degree,
digital billboards are by far more vibrant... for a good
logical reason. And even if we allow one or two, or just a few in the
outlying areas where I also try to enjoy the natural beauty of what
North Carolina has to offer, we will notice them much more than your
typical billboard and, because of their potential profitability, more
will be encouraged by those who manage that business. Because it makes
sense to the business owner.

      There are a lot
of other variables to discuss when it comes to this issue. I want to
discuss it now, the possibilities, before the meeting. Though I'm sure
an outline of what will be discussed would help focus the discussion, I
invite it. So, if the majority of members of this serve is against 
discussing this matter prior to the meeting, then let's discuss it
offline. Doesn't matter to me. But it might matter to those who simply
read posts and not participate.

      I for one can
assure you that I have an open mind. But an open mind does NOT mean I
have not an opinion based on my current experiences with the billboard
advertising giants. I am not against them, but I am against overuse and
potential disregard for those living near and around such billboards.
As much as I understand and support the use of available advertising
outlets, billboards can be trashy in-your-face distractions. And I am
way over-indulged. 

      But, I'm eager to
find out what they have to say. My opinion might change.

      So, there ya go! ;)

      --Skip

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: TheOcean1 at aol.com

        To: inc-list at durhaminc.org 

        Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:38 AM

        Subject: Re: INC NEWS -Digital Billboards: Fairway
Promoti =?win...

        Fortunately, there is absolutely no rush to action for the
citizens.... yet. Let's take our time and see what's on the table.

        I don't expect this to happen, but suppose Fairway
requested just one single LED Billboard at the outskirts of town. I
would assume many of those chiming in would oppose it.
        Now suppose Fairway were to sweeten the pot, and offered
to pay every man, woman & child in Durham $500k for the right to
put up that one billboard.... would you still oppose it?

Again, I don't expect them to make that offer..... but what do we
really have to discuss until we know exactly what they are proposing?

        Tuesday night isn't very far away, let's relax until we
hear the request directly. Waiting a few days until the information is
available will make this discussion much more productive.

        Bill Anderson

        In a message dated 12/4/2008 11:23:49 A.M. Eastern
Standard Time, kjj1 at duke.edu writes:
        I hope they'll address how the industry advantage they tout
in promotional materials (subject line above) will benefit the citizens
who "have to see it." I also hope they'll talk about what they pay to
landowners who host billboard and provide a list of who they've
approached, who has agreed, and who has made contributions to support
their efforts to get these billboards approved. In the immortal words
of Deep Throat: Follow the money. 

Kelly

Mike - Hotmail wrote:

            For those interested in
getting correct, accurate and up to date information on this issue, 
I'd highly recommend that coming to next Tuesday's INC meeting and
hearing first hand what this proposal is (and isn't) about is a
tantamount priority before passing judgement.

            It would also be helpful
to update the email subjects when they are not accurate and misleading
when forwarding them with new information on any listserve.

            Mike Shiflett

              -----
Original Message ----- 
              From:
              SimpleList

              To:
              inc-list at DurhamINC.org

              Sent:
Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:25 AM
              Subject:
Re: INC NEWS - flashing bill boards are a bad idea...

              Sort of apropos... I got a
kick from a quote I read from one of Fairway's promotional pieces about
Digital Billboards:

“Outdoor is not an on-demand medium. You can’t choose to see it, you
have to see it.”  -Advertising Age

I certainly do not want one in my back yard or anywhere within a scope
of vision from my home. Having driven cross country quite a bit, I have
seen a lot of digital billboards. They are attention grabbers, without
a doubt. And profitable too. Far more versatilely profitable than those
boring old antiquated billboards.

              However, whether we are for or
against them, whether we like the message or not, if allowed here in
Durham, we will SEE them.

--Skip 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "John Schelp" <bwatu at yahoo.com>

To: <inc-list at DurhamINC.org>

Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:05 PM

Subject: INC NEWS - flashing bill boards are a bad idea...

> folks,

> 

> Today's Bull City Rising has an entry on the proposal to introduce
electronic bill boards in Durham...

> 

> http://www.bullcityrising.com/2008/12/billboard-debate-to-star-at-december-inc-meeting.html

> 

> I've seen these electronic boards in the Triad and near Richmond.
They look like large flat screen TVs on a stick -- that flash different
images every five seconds.

> 

> Not only do the bill boards represent a distraction on the
Interstate in a congested urban setting, many of these bill boards
stand near homes and residential neighborhoods along the Interstate. 

> 

> I'm surprised this is even being considered by local officials.
The INC needs to strongly oppose this move by the bill board industry. 

> 

> ~John Schelp

> _______________________________________________

> INC-list mailing list

> INC-list at rtpnet.org

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