[Durham INC] Source info, with apology RE: Key Soc Distance Update/Identify the source.

Tue Mar 24 19:43:01 EDT 2020

Hi Jim! I apologize for forgetting to check/include the source for this item someone else on list had posted – may have accidentally trimmed from bottom of post to cut away unneeded headers/footers that make reading less comfortable and fill up disk space. Here’s a nice post from a good community guy in Duke Park I know, with the author who is indeed an epidemiologist. I’ll be sure to watch closer on any future posts, a little tired today may have led to oversight. 

I’ll also point out that many more dubious materials have been circulating list lately, and re-shared multiple times, with no one else being admonished publicly on list – and these more dubious certainly not shared by me. So maybe not doing that is a good practice imho. I’m not sure why this one was singled out, hopefully others will verify posts as well. Thanks!  - D in NGP

From: DUKEPARK at yahoogroups.com [mailto:DUKEPARK at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 7:19 PM
To: DUKEPARK at yahoogroups.com

Googled a line from the info and found the source. Jonathan Smith is a lecturer in Public Health at Yale. Seems legit and apolitical.

https://medium.com/@jpsmithalt/hold-the-line-17231c48ff17 

https://medicine.yale.edu/profile/jonathan_p_smith/ 

~Ed 

From: npna at groups.io [mailto:npna at groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim WW4M
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 7:27 PM
To: ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com
Cc: michael shiflett <mwshiflett at hotmail.com>; Northgate Park <npna at groups.io>; walltown at yahoogroups.com; walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com; Duke Park Neighborhood <dukepark at yahoogroups.com>; duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com; THNA at yahoogroups.com; Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com; wmb at yahoogroups.com; stadium-heights at googlegroups.com; oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com; owdna at googlegroups.comj; abcddurham at yahoogroups.com; inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net; clarioncontent at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [npna] [CVNA] RE: Identify the source.

Deb, if the "epidemiologist" is not named then it wasn't authored by an epidemiologist.

I wish you wouldn't cross post this outside your own neighborhood. You're misusing your access to other neighborhood lists. NPNA rules don't apply to any of the other neighborhoods you posted to.

Jim Price

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 7:19 PM 'Debra Hawkins' dhawkins913311 at gmail.com <mailto:dhawkins913311 at gmail.com>  [ColonialVillage_nhw] <ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com <mailto:ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com> > wrote:

Dear Mike and others, if you read the post carefully, you’ll see that it’s written by an epidemiologist and actually, it’s mostly common-sense precaution not to break the social distancing protocol and why not in layman’s terms. Not everything that starts with such a phrase is either suspect, incorrect or needs reference material vetting, including local medical neighbor’s posts, one of which I also circulated. In addition, we have a rule on the NPNA list serve that if you have any issue with a poster/post, you contact the admin not approach the list serve community (or poster) directly, as this has a chilling effect on more introverted people feeling comfortable about posting vital messages or simply participating in dialogue. 

In other words, your response is in violation of NPNA list serv guidelines, that the board worked very hard on a few years ago. Ideally that reminder should be shared by the list moderator. Encouragement for you to engage with that person. They can make the appropriate determination, as can those for other lists. If they do deem the current post inappropriate I will be more than happy to retract it immediately with an apology. 

At least for NPNA a blanket proviso for posts isn’t or shouldn’t be adopted, for the reasons its guidelines have stated. As a supporter of that policy I do encourage other lists to consider that approach, but that is up to those powers that be and their subscribers. 

Thank you everyone! Continuing well wishes.

D in NGP

From: michael shiflett [mailto:mwshiflett at hotmail.com <mailto:mwshiflett at hotmail.com> ] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 6:52 PM
To: Debra Hawkins <dhawkins913311 at gmail.com <mailto:dhawkins913311 at gmail.com> >; npna at groups.io <mailto:npna at groups.io> ; 'Colonial Village List serve' <ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com <mailto:ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com> >; walltown at yahoogroups.com <mailto:walltown at yahoogroups.com> ; walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com <mailto:walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com> ; dukepark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:dukepark at yahoogroups.com> ; duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com <mailto:duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com> ; THNA at yahoogroups.com <mailto:THNA at yahoogroups.com> ; Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com> ; wmb at yahoogroups.com <mailto:wmb at yahoogroups.com> ; stadium-heights at googlegroups.com <mailto:stadium-heights at googlegroups.com> ; oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com <mailto:oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com> ; owdna at googlegroups.comj; abcddurham at yahoogroups.com <mailto:abcddurham at yahoogroups.com> ; inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net <mailto:inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net> 
Cc: clarioncontent at gmail.com <mailto:clarioncontent at gmail.com> 
Subject: Identify the source. 

all,

I just read a post from the WHHN listserve that questioned politically positioned emails on neighborhood listserves and a correction for information that the poster needed to correct.  That shows maturity.

But what do you feel about 'information' that have the phrase ".... I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend" type posts?

Doesn't that sort of post create even more fear and anxiety that is unnecessary in todays environment.

This last post going out to over a dozen listserves goes to the edge of this type of 'information'.

If neighborhood posts allow such posts in their guidelines, then so let it be.  Otherwise who controls the news you hear in times like these.

The best source of information should come from who directly have knowledge and experience.   Those of us in the community have the ability to weigh that information based on the source.  But let them be the posters!

Let's make sure we have the source for what we post BEFORE posting it and let those who stand behind what they say be willing to be respectfully identified.

Until then,  I personally quickly delete posts that have  ".....I got it from a friend who heard it from a friend/brother/ coworker/etc.......who is a very knowledgeable/respected/governmental/good person......"    but YOU gotta believe me for that reason.

Doing otherwise, in my opinion, is a waste of space and time.

Mike Shiflett

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From: INC-list <inc-list-bounces at lists.deltaforce.net <mailto:inc-list-bounces at lists.deltaforce.net> > on behalf of Debra Hawkins <dhawkins913311 at gmail.com <mailto:dhawkins913311 at gmail.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 5:09 PM
To: npna at groups.io <mailto:npna at groups.io>  <npna at groups.io <mailto:npna at groups.io> >; 'Colonial Village List serve' <ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com <mailto:ColonialVillage_nhw at yahoogroups.com> >; walltown at yahoogroups.com <mailto:walltown at yahoogroups.com>  <walltown at yahoogroups.com <mailto:walltown at yahoogroups.com> >; walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com <mailto:walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com>  <walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com <mailto:walltown-neighbors at googlegroups.com> >; dukepark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:dukepark at yahoogroups.com>  <dukepark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:dukepark at yahoogroups.com> >; duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com <mailto:duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com>  <duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com <mailto:duke-homestead at yahoogroups.com> >; THNA at yahoogroups.com <mailto:THNA at yahoogroups.com>  <THNA at yahoogroups.com <mailto:THNA at yahoogroups.com> >; Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com>  <Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com <mailto:Trinitypark at yahoogroups.com> >; wmb at yahoogroups.com <mailto:wmb at yahoogroups.com>  <wmb at yahoogroups.com <mailto:wmb at yahoogroups.com> >; stadium-heights at googlegroups.com <mailto:stadium-heights at googlegroups.com>  <stadium-heights at googlegroups.com <mailto:stadium-heights at googlegroups.com> >; oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com <mailto:oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com>  <oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com <mailto:oldnorthdurham at yahoogroups.com> >; owdna at googlegroups.com <mailto:owdna at googlegroups.com>  <owdna at googlegroups.com <mailto:owdna at googlegroups.com> >; abcddurham at yahoogroups.com <mailto:abcddurham at yahoogroups.com>  <abcddurham at yahoogroups.com <mailto:abcddurham at yahoogroups.com> >; inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net <mailto:inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net>  <inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net <mailto:inc-list at lists.deltaforce.net> >
Cc: clarioncontent at gmail.com <mailto:clarioncontent at gmail.com>  <clarioncontent at gmail.com <mailto:clarioncontent at gmail.com> >
Subject: [Durham INC] Key Soc Distance Update (was:Thanks for keeping your distance!) 

Longer but major take-away preventing avoidable deaths/additional waves of epidemic to come. Important in light of today’s developments and return-to-work matters. Please read & take on board all those who will/can! – D in NGP

 <https://nextdoor.com/news_feed/?post=141463297> Physical Distancing Advice from an Epidemiologist

I received the following from a friend who got it from a friend of the author - we are working on getting the author's name, but in the meantime, it is well worth reading: this I think is a useful reminder that even small "cheats" to social distancing can render the whole exercise pointless. Written by an epidemiologist. "Hey everybody, as an infectious disease epidemiologist (although a lowly one), at this point feel morally obligated to provide some information on what we are seeing from a transmission dynamic perspective and how they apply to the social distancing measures. Like any good scientist I have noticed two things that are either not articulated or not present in the “literature” of social media. I am also tagging my much smarter infectious disease epidemiologist friends for peer review of this post. Please correct me if I am wrong (seriously). Specifically, I want to make two aspects of these measures very clear and unambiguous. First, we are in the very infancy of this epidemic’s trajectory. That means even with these measures we will see cases and deaths continue to rise globally, nationally, and in our own communities in the coming weeks. Our hospitals will be overwhelmed, and people will die that didn’t have to. This may lead some people to think that the social distancing measures are not working. They are. They may feel futile. They aren’t. You will feel discouraged. You should. This is normal in chaos. This enemy that we are facing is very good at what it does; we are not failing. We need everyone to hold the line as the epidemic inevitably gets worse. This is not my opinion; this is the unforgiving math of epidemics for which I and my colleagues have dedicated our lives to understanding with great nuance, and this disease is no exception. We know what will happen; I want to help the community brace for this impact. Stay strong and with solidarity knowing with absolute certainty that what you are doing is saving lives, even as people begin getting sick and dying around you. You may feel like giving in. Don’t. Second, although social distancing measures have been (at least temporarily) well-received, there is an obvious-but-overlooked phenomenon when considering groups (i.e. families) in transmission dynamics. While social distancing decreases contact with members of society, it of course increases your contacts with group (i.e. family) members. This small and obvious fact has surprisingly profound implications on disease transmission dynamics. Study after study demonstrates that even if there is only a little bit of connection between groups (i.e. social dinners, playdates/playgrounds, etc.), the epidemic trajectory isn’t much different than if there was no measure in place. The same underlying fundamentals of disease transmission apply, and the result is that the community is left with all of the social and economic disruption but very little public health benefit. You should perceive your entire family to function as a single individual unit; if one person puts themselves at risk, everyone in the unit is at risk. Seemingly small social chains get large and complex with alarming speed. If your son visits his girlfriend, and you later sneak over for coffee with a neighbor, your neighbor is now connected to the infected office worker that your son’s girlfriend’s mother shook hands with. This sounds silly, it’s not. This is not a joke or a hypothetical. We as epidemiologists see it borne out in the data time and time again and no one listens. Conversely, any break in that chain breaks disease transmission along that chain. In contrast to hand-washing and other personal measures, social distancing measures are not about individuals, they are about societies working in unison. These measures also take a long time to see the results. It is hard (even for me) to conceptualize how ‘one quick little get together’ can undermine the entire framework of a public health intervention, but it does. I promise you it does. I promise. I promise. I promise. You can’t cheat it. People are already itching to cheat on the social distancing precautions just a “little”- a playdate, a haircut, or picking up a needless item at the store, etc. From a transmission dynamics standpoint, this very quickly recreates a highly connected social network that undermines all of the work the community has done so far. Until we get a viable vaccine this unprecedented outbreak will not be overcome in grand, sweeping gesture, rather only by the collection of individual choices our community makes in the coming months. This virus is unforgiving to unwise choices. My goal in writing this is to prevent communities from getting ‘sucker-punched’ by what the epidemiological community knows will happen in the coming weeks. It will be easy to be drawn to the idea that what we are doing isn’t working and become paralyzed by fear, or to ‘cheat’ a little bit in the coming weeks. By knowing what to expect, and knowing the importance of maintaining these measures, my hope is to encourage continued community spirit, strategizing, and action to persevere in this time of uncertainty.

New <https://nextdoor.com/news_feed/?post=141463297> 22 hr ago · 27 neighborhoods in  <https://nextdoor.com/general/> General

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