INC NEWS - dirt streets to be paved

[kjj1 at duke.edu]

Hey Randy and Bill--

Take it off line and settle this between yourselves.

Kelly

--On Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:27 AM -0400 RW Pickle <randy at 27beverly.com> 
wrote:

> I understand English is a complex language to learn (from those from other
> lands now living here and learning English). I'd like to thank Bill for
> his translation of my complex English into "Anderson Basic  Script" (or
> "Anderson BS" as we like to call it). It was no doubt for those of you for
> which English is a second language. Fortunately, I believe everyone on the
> list speaks and understands English well for I have had no requests for
> translation into another language since I have maintained this list. So
> the need to "dumb it down"" was probably unnecessary. Adding his emotions
> to what he thought I said becomes what he says, not what I said. Perhaps
> my English needs to be simpler for Bill and others (thinking the odds are
> good that he's not alone even though he suggests he might be; I tend to
> agree with him on his assessment that he is alone on this, but we both
> could be wrong). As typical, something always gets lost in the
> translation...
>
> I was asked to forward the information I provided about the paving of
> gravel streets by our President and did so. It was a piece of info I had
> yet seen made known to this neighborhood group list. Any email
> conversations one may have with City staff is a matter of public record.
> If you want the entire content of any post I ever send to this list that
> would provide information other than that which was  specifically
> requested, you are able to get it under the Sunset Laws from the City. I
> saw no reason (here I am deciding things again and deciding what you might
> read should you choose to do so) to forward content that was not requested
> and  contained irrelevant information (other than what was requested).
> There was not, nor will there ever be, censorship on my part. I was just
> providing the specific information  as requested. It wasn't a report or
> anything other than some good info (if you live in a neighborhood where
> one of these streets are located).
>
> Bill is miffed about the heavy handed moderator of this list (me).
> Typically I would have expected him to bring his complaints to the source
> instead of airing his disgust (?) via this list. I recently rejected a
> number of posts (not just from Bill) and I sent those who were cross
> posting, (dragging others from other lists across lists which they didn't
> belong)  an email notifying them of the actions taken and why. Not
> everyone seems to understand how lists work and why there are rules for
> posting. Some tend to want to use this list to glorify personal positions
> they might take relating to an issue in their own neighborhood or some
> other position that is not relevant to something INC is working on. That's
> fine when they contain it to their respective "neighborhood" lists. But
> when posts are broadcast across the City, across lists that have a variety
> of people not on all those lists, it creates havoc for all of us who
> maintain the mailing lists (which that person for INC is me; I am the list
> administrator). We start getting posts from people who aren't members of a
> particular list and have to decide what to do with those posts. They
> create log jams in the system service that otherwise generally operates
> maintenance free. It puts an unnecessary burden on those of us who
> administer lists. It causes us to actually have to work at making the list
> work. I have taken the position to reject all of these problem posts
> because generally the posts aren't coming from members of the INC list.
> But when it's a member of the INC list causing the problems (as it was
> this last time), I typically take the time to make those involved aware
> the consequences of dragging folks who don't belong to a particular list,
> across other lists. I try to educate everyone as to how it all works and
> why something may just be wrong.  Educating folks takes additional time,
> but it tends to help the whole list by alleviating the problems at the
> source. And as bad as it is, it seems to be the same people who do it over
> and over, never learning or remembering why it is not a good idea to
> create these problems in the first place. Just clicking "reply all" seems
> to be the biggest culprit. By not looking at where the reply is going (to
> what lists or persons), it creates the problem really quick. Compound that
> by sheer numbers of emails and you can see how big this problem quickly
> becomes.
>
> This mailing list is not my personal domain as Bill would like to infer.
> It is the email list of INC (I think you all are aware of this). I am just
> the list administrator. And when I make a decision to do something
> administrative, that is what I am charged to do. It is done so not out of
> ignorance of the service, but from years of experience with it. Issues are
> handled the same, regardless of  who the person creating the problem might
> be. Otherwise we'd all be bombarded with spam on the list and that's just
> counter productive. So I had to again quietly spank Bill and other members
> of this INC list recently for cross posting and dragging others across
> lists. It wasn't the first time and it probably won't be the last
> (guessing, since it continues to happen even after trying education, it'll
> continue). Hey, it's just my job. Perhaps the remainder of those on this
> list appreciate not getting a lot of spam. The system and policies work.
> It doesn't happen.
>
> If this list is quiet, all must be well in the city we call Durham.
> Everyone has the same ability to post as any other member. Maybe there is
> just not much to talk about right now. Rest assured, it has nothing to do
> with me as the administrator. If the lack of delegates at the last meeing
> is any example, perhaps times are exceptionally good in Durham right now
> and the need for INC involvement is much less. I don't recall another
> meeting in the past (going back years and in some very poor weather) where
> there weren't enough members present to vote on something. The resolution
> that was on the table to be voted on is now moot as it has already been
> dealt with by our government officials. They wanted to know what INC
> thought, but we were unable to provide that clue. That's a pretty poor
> example to be setting. And this was in a month (Feb.) which typically has
> a great deal of involvement since it's winter and there is less to do
> outside (or vacations, or school kids out, etc). Every neighborhood has
> the option of sending 2 delegates. Getting just one delegate last month
> would have been a bonus. At least we could have moved forward instead of
> being stuck and doing nothing. Often, time is of the essence as it was
> last month on a resolution. By not voicing our opinion as a body, we lost
> our opportunity for input into the process. And that is what INC is really
> all about.
>
> As a Board, we talk about a lot of things that never reach this list. I am
> sorry that conversations are carried on like this. I do believe they would
> stimulate conversation with our reading public if they were posted here.
> But for whatever reason, they are dealt with off this list. Nothing
> secret, just conversations that perhaps you may wish to have a voice in.
> Or maybe the sheer volume would be seen as burdensome and you wouldn't
> like it at all. One topic is what the role of this Board actually is; what
> duties you would like to see us perform and services you would like to see
> added. I'll be posting one of these conversations later this weekend
> because I think there are some issues that you just need to be made aware
> of before deciding directions for this body to take. As I have stressed to
> this Board, we don't make decisions, you the membership do. But perhaps
> you'd like us to do more decision making and less of letting you decide.
> Or maybe not.
>
> Someone will probably point out that I suggested in a previous post that
> being concise and short were good things. That was relative to the words
> of others I guess. I don't mind expounding on things when they are  my
> words. I guess I'm known for that...
>
> RWP
> 27 Beverly
>
>
>>
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>  Since you know everyone appreciates your effort in making their  emails
>> shorter and more concise, I'll perform the same service and translate
>> what you've
>> just said below.
>>
>> Basically you said, "No Bill, I'm not going to simply forward the
>> original emails from city staff and others.
>> Everyone besides you appreciates me censoring their information. That way
>> they don't get muddled in details the way you have. And if you don't like
>> it,
>> don't say so in this public forum, contact me off line."
>>
>>  And from now on, anyone wanting the short version of what Randy has  to
>> say,
>> just come to me and I'll fill you in.
>>
>>  Maybe you're right, Randy, perhaps I'm the only one who DOES NOT
>> APPRECIATE
>> YOU DECIDING WHAT INFORMATION I RECIEVE . And if brevity is the main
>> objective, and the public really does want someone to cull their
>> information, I
>> doubt either one of us is ideal for that job.
>>
>> I haven't forgotten what a public forum this list used to be, but it sure
>> has been quiet lately. It only takes a heavy handed listserv moderator to
>> turn a
>>  public forum into one man's private domain.
>>
>>  WWA
>> 113 Markham
>>
>> In a message dated 3/24/2007 10:00:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> randy at 27beverly.com writes:
>>
>> The  entire email was not pertinent to the subjected post. That is why it
>> was  parsed. Perhaps you would have liked all of the pages, but I doubt
>> that  anyone would have enjoyed having their mailboxes packed with  more
>> irrelevant information.  A recent example was an email from  another
>> Director from another City department. She told us in advance of an
>> email that it was 14 meg of material and if we wanted it, she'd send it
>> by snail
>> mail. I appreciated the fact that she was concerned, as well as she
>> should
>> have been, that emails of that size would clog most email programs.  In
>> fact, the list server has a cap on the size of any post because of  this
>> issue. So when you see something broken down into only the relevant
>> parts,
>> understand that it was done so for a reason. Not that it was  filtered or
>> "all" of the irrelevant information was not included. I think  this is
>> generally understood and appreciated by most. Certainly the more  concise
>> an email is, the easier it is read and followed.
>>
>> So just to  respond to your concerns, "her" is Julie Brenmen, the head of
>> Budget and  Finance and the person who heads up CCIP. If you even know
>> what
>> CCIP is and  does, then "her" was known as well. Neither of these pieces
>> of
>> information  were really relevant. The post related to dirt street
>> improvements. The  message in the post was more important to those who
>> wanted this information  than the details you wonder about. In fact, if
>> you
>> follow the work done by  our City Council, this is old news as they have
>> already dealt with this  issue. But it wasn't widely distributed. Most
>> neighborhoods with this issue  are well aware of what the plans are for
>> paving and improving our miles of  gravel roads in this City. Some may
>> not be, and for those that  it is  not an issue, it was all irrelevant
>> anyway.
>>
>> It's about getting  information out there, not the picky irrelevant
>> details
>> you regularly get  muddled in. Complaints are better dealt with off this
>> list. It just wastes  others time and mailbox space.
>>
>> RWP
>> 27  Beverly
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure why you don't just forward  the original message.
>>> It would prevent questions such as "Who is  her?"
>>>
>>> No need to copy and paste, INC member neighborhoods can  take it raw,
>>> please
>>> forward the original.
>>>
>>>  Thanks
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> In a message dated 3/23/2007 9:44:49 P.M.  Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> randy at 27beverly.com writes:
>>>
>>>  The  following email was sent to the CCIP members (of which I am   one
>>> representing INC). It regards the dirt streets in Durham that  will  be
>>> improved with the 2005 bond money. The following is a  copy and paste
>>> from
>>> her email to us:
>>>
>>> "The  following street segments will be paved  with those funds (plus
>>> some
>>> funding for water & sewer improvements and   sidewalks).
>>>
>>> Beebe Road
>>>
>>> Belgreen  Road
>>>
>>> Boone  Street
>>>
>>> Caltalpa  Drive
>>>
>>> Castlerock Drive
>>>
>>> Chalk Level   Road
>>>
>>> Chicago Street
>>>
>>> Dial Drive
>>>
>>>  Edgerton Drive
>>>
>>> Obie  Drive
>>>
>>> Roane  Street
>>>
>>> Wynne Road"
>>>
>>>
>>> RWP
>>>  27  Beverly
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> ====================================================================
>> This  e-mail, and any attachments to it, contains PRIVILEGED AND
>> CONFIDENTIAL  information intended only for the use of the addressee(s)
>> or entity named  on the e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient of
>> this e-mail, or the  employee or agent responsible for delivering it to
>> the intended recipient,  you are hereby notified that any reading,
>> dissemination or copying of this  e-mail in error is strictly prohibited.
>> If you have received this  electronic  transmission in error, please
>> notify
>> me by telephone  (919-489-0576) or by electronic  mail to the sender of
>> this email,  RW  Pickle (pickle at patriot.net)  immediately.
>> =====================================================================
>>
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