INC NEWS - dirt streets to be paved

Sun Mar 25 10:27:40 EDT 2007

I understand English is a complex language to learn (from those from other
lands now living here and learning English). I'd like to thank Bill for
his translation of my complex English into "Anderson Basic  Script" (or
"Anderson BS" as we like to call it). It was no doubt for those of you for
which English is a second language. Fortunately, I believe everyone on the
list speaks and understands English well for I have had no requests for
translation into another language since I have maintained this list. So
the need to "dumb it down"" was probably unnecessary. Adding his emotions
to what he thought I said becomes what he says, not what I said. Perhaps
my English needs to be simpler for Bill and others (thinking the odds are
good that he's not alone even though he suggests he might be; I tend to
agree with him on his assessment that he is alone on this, but we both
could be wrong). As typical, something always gets lost in the
translation...

I was asked to forward the information I provided about the paving of
gravel streets by our President and did so. It was a piece of info I had
yet seen made known to this neighborhood group list. Any email
conversations one may have with City staff is a matter of public record.
If you want the entire content of any post I ever send to this list that
would provide information other than that which was  specifically
requested, you are able to get it under the Sunset Laws from the City. I
saw no reason (here I am deciding things again and deciding what you might
read should you choose to do so) to forward content that was not requested
and  contained irrelevant information (other than what was requested).
There was not, nor will there ever be, censorship on my part. I was just
providing the specific information  as requested. It wasn't a report or
anything other than some good info (if you live in a neighborhood where
one of these streets are located).

Bill is miffed about the heavy handed moderator of this list (me).
Typically I would have expected him to bring his complaints to the source
instead of airing his disgust (?) via this list. I recently rejected a
number of posts (not just from Bill) and I sent those who were cross
posting, (dragging others from other lists across lists which they didn't
belong)  an email notifying them of the actions taken and why. Not
everyone seems to understand how lists work and why there are rules for
posting. Some tend to want to use this list to glorify personal positions
they might take relating to an issue in their own neighborhood or some
other position that is not relevant to something INC is working on. That's
fine when they contain it to their respective "neighborhood" lists. But
when posts are broadcast across the City, across lists that have a variety
of people not on all those lists, it creates havoc for all of us who
maintain the mailing lists (which that person for INC is me; I am the list
administrator). We start getting posts from people who aren't members of a
particular list and have to decide what to do with those posts. They
create log jams in the system service that otherwise generally operates
maintenance free. It puts an unnecessary burden on those of us who
administer lists. It causes us to actually have to work at making the list
work. I have taken the position to reject all of these problem posts
because generally the posts aren't coming from members of the INC list.
But when it's a member of the INC list causing the problems (as it was
this last time), I typically take the time to make those involved aware
the consequences of dragging folks who don't belong to a particular list,
across other lists. I try to educate everyone as to how it all works and
why something may just be wrong.  Educating folks takes additional time,
but it tends to help the whole list by alleviating the problems at the
source. And as bad as it is, it seems to be the same people who do it over
and over, never learning or remembering why it is not a good idea to
create these problems in the first place. Just clicking "reply all" seems
to be the biggest culprit. By not looking at where the reply is going (to
what lists or persons), it creates the problem really quick. Compound that
by sheer numbers of emails and you can see how big this problem quickly
becomes.

This mailing list is not my personal domain as Bill would like to infer.
It is the email list of INC (I think you all are aware of this). I am just
the list administrator. And when I make a decision to do something
administrative, that is what I am charged to do. It is done so not out of
ignorance of the service, but from years of experience with it. Issues are
handled the same, regardless of  who the person creating the problem might
be. Otherwise we'd all be bombarded with spam on the list and that's just
counter productive. So I had to again quietly spank Bill and other members
of this INC list recently for cross posting and dragging others across
lists. It wasn't the first time and it probably won't be the last
(guessing, since it continues to happen even after trying education, it'll
continue). Hey, it's just my job. Perhaps the remainder of those on this
list appreciate not getting a lot of spam. The system and policies work.
It doesn't happen.

If this list is quiet, all must be well in the city we call Durham.
Everyone has the same ability to post as any other member. Maybe there is
just not much to talk about right now. Rest assured, it has nothing to do
with me as the administrator. If the lack of delegates at the last meeing
is any example, perhaps times are exceptionally good in Durham right now
and the need for INC involvement is much less. I don't recall another
meeting in the past (going back years and in some very poor weather) where
there weren't enough members present to vote on something. The resolution
that was on the table to be voted on is now moot as it has already been
dealt with by our government officials. They wanted to know what INC
thought, but we were unable to provide that clue. That's a pretty poor
example to be setting. And this was in a month (Feb.) which typically has
a great deal of involvement since it's winter and there is less to do
outside (or vacations, or school kids out, etc). Every neighborhood has
the option of sending 2 delegates. Getting just one delegate last month
would have been a bonus. At least we could have moved forward instead of
being stuck and doing nothing. Often, time is of the essence as it was
last month on a resolution. By not voicing our opinion as a body, we lost
our opportunity for input into the process. And that is what INC is really
all about.

As a Board, we talk about a lot of things that never reach this list. I am
sorry that conversations are carried on like this. I do believe they would
stimulate conversation with our reading public if they were posted here.
But for whatever reason, they are dealt with off this list. Nothing
secret, just conversations that perhaps you may wish to have a voice in.
Or maybe the sheer volume would be seen as burdensome and you wouldn't
like it at all. One topic is what the role of this Board actually is; what
duties you would like to see us perform and services you would like to see
added. I'll be posting one of these conversations later this weekend
because I think there are some issues that you just need to be made aware
of before deciding directions for this body to take. As I have stressed to
this Board, we don't make decisions, you the membership do. But perhaps
you'd like us to do more decision making and less of letting you decide.
Or maybe not.

Someone will probably point out that I suggested in a previous post that
being concise and short were good things. That was relative to the words
of others I guess. I don't mind expounding on things when they are  my
words. I guess I'm known for that...

RWP
27 Beverly

>
>
> Randy
>
>  Since you know everyone appreciates your effort in making their  emails
> shorter and more concise, I'll perform the same service and translate
> what you've
> just said below.
>
> Basically you said, "No Bill, I'm not going to simply forward the original
> emails from city staff and others.
> Everyone besides you appreciates me censoring their information. That way
> they don't get muddled in details the way you have. And if you don't like
> it,
> don't say so in this public forum, contact me off line."
>
>  And from now on, anyone wanting the short version of what Randy has  to
> say,
> just come to me and I'll fill you in.
>
>  Maybe you're right, Randy, perhaps I'm the only one who DOES NOT
> APPRECIATE
> YOU DECIDING WHAT INFORMATION I RECIEVE . And if brevity is the main
> objective, and the public really does want someone to cull their
> information, I
> doubt either one of us is ideal for that job.
>
> I haven't forgotten what a public forum this list used to be, but it sure
> has been quiet lately. It only takes a heavy handed listserv moderator to
> turn a
>  public forum into one man's private domain.
>
>  WWA
> 113 Markham
>
> In a message dated 3/24/2007 10:00:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> randy at 27beverly.com writes:
>
> The  entire email was not pertinent to the subjected post. That is why it
> was  parsed. Perhaps you would have liked all of the pages, but I doubt
> that  anyone would have enjoyed having their mailboxes packed with  more
> irrelevant information.  A recent example was an email from  another
> Director from another City department. She told us in advance of an  email
> that it was 14 meg of material and if we wanted it, she'd send it by
> snail
> mail. I appreciated the fact that she was concerned, as well as she
> should
> have been, that emails of that size would clog most email programs.  In
> fact, the list server has a cap on the size of any post because of  this
> issue. So when you see something broken down into only the relevant
> parts,
> understand that it was done so for a reason. Not that it was  filtered or
> "all" of the irrelevant information was not included. I think  this is
> generally understood and appreciated by most. Certainly the more  concise
> an email is, the easier it is read and followed.
>
> So just to  respond to your concerns, "her" is Julie Brenmen, the head of
> Budget and  Finance and the person who heads up CCIP. If you even know
> what
> CCIP is and  does, then "her" was known as well. Neither of these pieces
> of
> information  were really relevant. The post related to dirt street
> improvements. The  message in the post was more important to those who
> wanted this information  than the details you wonder about. In fact, if
> you
> follow the work done by  our City Council, this is old news as they have
> already dealt with this  issue. But it wasn't widely distributed. Most
> neighborhoods with this issue  are well aware of what the plans are for
> paving and improving our miles of  gravel roads in this City. Some may not
> be, and for those that  it is  not an issue, it was all irrelevant anyway.
>
> It's about getting  information out there, not the picky irrelevant
> details
> you regularly get  muddled in. Complaints are better dealt with off this
> list. It just wastes  others time and mailbox space.
>
> RWP
> 27  Beverly
>
>
>>
>>
>> Not sure why you don't just forward  the original message.
>> It would prevent questions such as "Who is  her?"
>>
>> No need to copy and paste, INC member neighborhoods can  take it raw,
>> please
>> forward the original.
>>
>>  Thanks
>> Bill
>>
>> In a message dated 3/23/2007 9:44:49 P.M.  Eastern Daylight Time,
>> randy at 27beverly.com writes:
>>
>>  The  following email was sent to the CCIP members (of which I am   one
>> representing INC). It regards the dirt streets in Durham that  will  be
>> improved with the 2005 bond money. The following is a  copy and paste
>> from
>> her email to us:
>>
>> "The  following street segments will be paved  with those funds (plus
>> some
>> funding for water & sewer improvements and   sidewalks).
>>
>> Beebe Road
>>
>> Belgreen  Road
>>
>> Boone  Street
>>
>> Caltalpa  Drive
>>
>> Castlerock Drive
>>
>> Chalk Level   Road
>>
>> Chicago Street
>>
>> Dial Drive
>>
>>  Edgerton Drive
>>
>> Obie  Drive
>>
>> Roane  Street
>>
>> Wynne Road"
>>
>>
>> RWP
>>  27  Beverly
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> INC-list   mailing  list
>> INC-list at rtpnet.org
>>  http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ************************************** AOL now offers free email to
>>  everyone.
>>  Find out more about what's free from AOL at  http://www.aol.com.
>>
>
>
> ====================================================================
> This  e-mail, and any attachments to it, contains PRIVILEGED AND
> CONFIDENTIAL  information intended only for the use of the addressee(s) or
> entity named  on the e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> e-mail, or the  employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the
> intended recipient,  you are hereby notified that any reading,
> dissemination or copying of this  e-mail in error is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this  electronic  transmission in error, please
> notify
> me by telephone  (919-489-0576) or by electronic  mail to the sender of
> this email,  RW  Pickle (pickle at patriot.net)  immediately.
> =====================================================================
>
> _______________________________________________
> INC-list  mailing  list
> INC-list at rtpnet.org
> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** AOL now offers free email to
> everyone.
>  Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
>