[Durham INC] Reason to wait before deciding Electronic billboards in Durham

Mon Jan 19 17:47:54 EST 2009

Kelly

No one has called you any names, yet under separate covers you've named me  
quibbling, and Mike self-righteous, and both of us invested. When all we've 
been  saying is, let's wait to hear what they are requesting.

I don't see valuable dialogue in calling people names because they refuse  to 
join you in forming opinions prior to seeing the facts.

"If Fairway offered to take down all of their signs in exchange for one  
single electronic board, would you vote for that?"

Don't blame you for not answering that question, because it might show the  
reason not to make up your mind before you hear the offer.

Bill
PS: Enough already, OK? Let's just agree to disagree, not about billboards,  
but about requiring a vote prior to hearing the facts. You're for that, I'm  
not.

In a message dated 1/19/2009 5:16:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
kjj1 at duke.edu writes:

Bill--

Whatever proposal there is will come from Fairway. Why are  you so invested 
in entertaining it? Why can't we say: No thank you. Not  interested. Durham 
fought the fight against billboard blight years ago, and  we're not interested in 
revisiting the issue. We don't want billboards in  Durham, electronic or 
otherwise.

I'm not interested in looking at an  electronic billboard on any of the 
highways coming into Durham. I cannot  imagine a single view in Durham that I think 
would be improved by an  electronic billboard. I cannot think of any 
neighborhood or fellow Durham  resident who I think should have to live within view of 
one.  

Kelly

_TheOcean1 at aol.The_ (mailto:TheOcean1 at aol.com)  wrote:  

Kelly

I have no vested interest in  having all of us consider any proposal.... 
because there isn't any proposal  yet!

You seem pretty vested in getting  everyone to make up their minds before 
they've even heard what is being  proposed. Why?

Try the same question I asked  John, "If Fairway offered to take down all of 
their signs in exchange for  one single electronic board, would you vote for 
that?"

How would you vote,  Kelly?

If you know what they are  proposing, please share it. If you don't know, 
then why the push to get  everyone to vote prior to hearing it? What's the rush?

Bill

In a message dated 1/19/2009  3:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
_kjj1 at duke.edu_ (mailto:kjj1 at duke.edu)   writes:

Marcia--
Your point is well taken. And Rodrigo's email was  simple & to the point.

I can see why Fairway and their hired  representatives want Durhams existing 
prohibition of electronic billboards  overturned. What I don't understand is 
what Mike and Bill have invested in  having all of us consider Fairway's 
proposal? Why they insist on putting  "compromise" on the table? Why should we even 
consider overturning our  existing billboard ordinances to allow electronic 
billboards? It seems  likely to me that the reason there's no text to consider 
is that Fairway  withdrew proposed text when they sensed the depth of community 
resistance  to their electronic billboards.

The bit about Durham's foodie  culture being saved by electronic billboard 
ads directing hungry highway  drivers to an independent restaurant is perhaps 
the most entertaining  fantasy I've read so far. As if the success of Durham's 
foodie culture  will be helped by electronic billboards . . . . why do we need 
to be good  enough to warrant coverage in Southern Living, Food & Wine, 
Gourmet,  or any other national publication when our home-grown foodie restaurants  
can be saved by Fairway's electronic  billboards.

Kelly

Marcia Kirinus wrote:  

Mike - Seems like  the community has made up it's mind. I'm not sure I would 
constitute a  firm resolve as an 'emotional reaction'.  The only thing I'm  
confused about is why you want to encourage Fairway to continue  discussions. 
What's in it for you?  If you have opposing views,  stop beating your chest,  
and tell us (all) why we need to be pro  billboards.  No theatrics, no 
innuendoes, no finger  pointing  - what is good?  What facts do you want to share  with 
the rest of us that could perhaps sway us? I never thought of the  greater 
part of Durham as narrow minded.  By 'greater' I   mean bigger NOT better.  Why 
go through years worth of  negotiations when it is obvious that billboards are 
not wanted.   I just don't get your point.
With respect, Marcia  on Carolina.

On  Jan 19, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Mike - Hotmail  wrote:

Thanks Mike B. for at least be willing to  listen.

What I find confusing is the emotional reaction people have to  billboards.

Like you,  I've  tried to remain objective and listen to both sides before 
taking a position.   I've even willing to participate in discussions, if 
asked, to get everything that's spoken written down to make  sure we're 
accurate in the decision making  process.

Which I'd like to see compared to the long series of  discussions that just 
took place recently regarding a very large development proposal  near our 
neighborhoods.

While I was not personally involved in them,  I trusted the folks who  were 
to represent the best interests of the  community.

>From what I understand,   neither side agreed with each other in the 
beginning.   Even  along the way,  several  proposals and drafts were 
rejected 
for one reason or another, but eventually each side came to an  agreement 
that they could live with (literally in their back  yards).

That took a lot of time, effort, debate, argument, counter  point, compromise 
and understanding on several sides (city, neighborhood and  developer) over 
months and months of meetings, but I believe from the recent  newspaper 
articles and the decision to support it by the planning  commission that they 
came to a very workable solution.

I'm just as concerned about the brightness,  neighborhood intrusion,  past 
litigation and visual blight billboards are currently  associated with, just 
like most of us are.

Why can't this same process be followed and as much effort put  into finding 
a better solution to what we have now vs. what may be agreed  to,  IN 
WRITING,  so that  everyone has had an opportunity to see what's  possible.

There's a lot of rhetoric and chest beating going on regarding  billboards on 
our listserves and in the papers. Some of it is warranted, some  of it not.

But before anyone takes a final position on this issue,  doesn't it make 
sense to discuss it based on facts and written enforceable  documentation 
rather than innuendo and theatrics?

It's my understanding that these new digital billboards have an  integrated 
light sensor that doesn't allow them to get any brighter (and  sometime 
significantly so) than the current way of lighting them.   I also understand 
that they're proposing to use a local source and donate  time/space(as 
they've done for many years) to non-profits and community  sponsored issues 
that significantly affect Durham's bottom line.  Where's that role or 
participation in the community stand with us? Are they willing  to thin out 
some of their billboards along areas that WE feel ought to have  significant 
additional buffers?    What's enforceable that can be included into our 
ordinances to prevent future litigation?   Can solar and wind energy  counter 
their carbon footprint or counter it vs. what's happening  now?

Before asking people to take a stand 'fer or agin it'  maybe there's still 
time to start getting at what's really bothering us about them  and to come 
up with better proposals and solutions, rather than telling  people that the 
community has already made up it's  mind.

Have you?

"It is better to debate a question without settling it,  than to settle a 
question without debating it"
--Jespeh Joubert

Mike Shiflett

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bacon" <_michael at snowplow.mic_ (mailto:michael at snowplow.org) >
To: "Mike - Hotmail" <_mwshiflett at hotmail.mws_ 
(mailto:mwshiflett at hotmail.com) >
Cc: "owdNA" <_owdna at yahoogroups.owd_ (mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com) >
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:07  PM
Subject: Re: [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding  Electronic billboards 
in Durham

(Apparently I missed the OWDNA list when replying.  Reposted for  full
coverage... :)

Mike,

I may be missing something, but last time I checked, 147,  15-501, 70,
and
85 ran near our homes, schools, churches, and  parks?

The biggest part of the proposal is to allow lighted  electronic
billboards.
There's no reason we need them and no reason they're good for  Durham,
other than to line Fairway's  pocketbooks.

I have not so fond memories of Fairway when they spent tons of  campaign
money to knock a few cracks in Asheville's billboard  ordinances, then
immediately went on a building spree, coating the town with  new
billboards
and increasing the sizes of existing ones. One was so reviled  that a
rebellious soul went and chainsawed the thing in half,  prompting weeks
of
laudatory letters to the editor in the Citizen-Times. I've seen  at
least a
previous generation of what Fairway Outdoor Advertising has in  mind for
what it thinks is just a little improvement, and I can say  quite
clearly, I want none of it.

I've been quiet on this issue, but only because I'm a bit  overwhelmed
with
other stuff at the moment. But while I respect the sentiment  of, "cool
down, let's take a look at this," ask any current or former  resident of
Asheville about this firm, and they'll tell  you.

Don't. Trust. Fairway.

-Michael

On Jan 16, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Mike - Hotmail  wrote:

As far as I've been able to understand from listening to both  sides of
this
issue,  at no  time have I heard or seen evidence that the  billboard
industry
is proposing to put up new ".........flashing billboards near  our
homes,
schools, churches, and parks."  From the previous INC  meeting and from
what
I've read in the newspapers, they only want to have them  along the
current
legal locations that they are now.  That being US85, 15-501,  70 and
147.

I have not heard that they are looking at upgrading any signs  to
digital
anywhere near any of the above.

Can someone can provide confirmation or evidence of  this?

In the meantime,   I'm still trying to understand exactly what it  being
proposed and presented in the text  amendment.

Mike Shiflett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Jarrett" <_kjj1 at duke.edu_ (mailto:kjj1 at duke.edu) >
To: "owdNA" <_owdna at yahoogroups.owd_ (mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com) >; "PAC2" 
<_pac2 at yahoogroups.pac_ (mailto:pac2 at yahoogroups.com) >
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:41  AM
Subject: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards  in Durham

For those who have been following the electronic billboard  issue, the
following might be of interest:

Forwarded from INC listserv:

folks,

Let us celebrate a victory for the  community...

In choosing to do nothing, the DDI board decided not to  support the
billboard industry.

This decision represents a set-back for those trying to stick  big,
bright,
flashing billboards near our homes, schools, churches, and  parks.
(Thanks go
to those DDI board members who spoke out against this  terrible idea.)

The struggle continues to stop the billboard industry from  overturning
the
current ban on electronic billboards in  Durham.

But today we celebrate a victory for common  sense.

have a great weekend,
John

January 15, 2009

Mr. Paul Hickman
General Manager
Fairway Outdoor Advertising
P. O. Box 10545
Raleigh, NC   27605

Dear Paul,

Several weeks ago Steve Toler and you asked that the DDI  Board of
Directors
consider your request to the City of Durham related to  revised text
amendment language related to the outdoor advertising  industry in
Durham.

What follows is a summary of the DDI Board’s lengthy and  thoughtful
discussion, and its decision.

As DDI understands, last summer, Fairway Outdoor Advertising  submitted
an
application, which is still pending, for a text amendment  revision to
the
UDO related to Durham’s billboard ordinance.  After submitting  its
application, Fairway representatives met with members of  Planning
Department, which forwarded the application to the Joint  City-County
Planning Committee for review. The JCCPC recommended to  Fairway that it
begin a process of meeting with community organizations to  discuss the
billboard proposal.   Following the JCCPC meeting, we understand  that
Fairway
withdrew the draft language portion of its text amendment  application;
and,
in good faith, began scheduling meetings for its community  outreach
effort.
After completing its community outreach effort, Fairway may  re-submit
revised draft text amendment language as part of its  current
application.

So, technically, until Fairway re-submits formal draft text  amendment
language for its application, currently there is no formal  text
amendment
“on the table.”

While there is no formal text amendment language to consider  at this
time,
DDI recognizes the substantial community interest about this  issue,
and in
keeping with DDI’s long standing effort to lend its voice to  the
discussion
of important community issues, and responding to a request of  Fairway,
a DDI
Partner in Progress, the DDI Board of Directors held a  lengthy and
thoughtful discussion at its meeting on January  15th.

After very careful consideration of facts as understood by  the members
present, and of the pros and cons of how this issue relates  to our
community, and in particular downtown, members of the Board  of
Directors
were unable to come to a consensus on any recommendation,  and
therefore DDI
voted to take no action related to this  issue.

In the interest of disclosure to Fairway and the public, the  Board
asked
that I elaborate on the reason for our decision to take no  action.

The Board’s discussion focused on three main areas:  the repair  and
landscaping of billboards currently in our community; the  possible
relocation of billboards within the community; and, the issue  of
allowing
digital billboards.

Board members did wish to encourage the repair and  landscaping of
billboards
currently in our community.  Members were of the  opinion that given the
unsightly nature of many Durham roadsides, and of some  billboards, our
community’s appearance would benefit from the repair and  landscaping of
current billboards.   However, repair or upgrade of billboards  is
difficult.
As DDI understands, the current Durham billboard ordinance  allows for
routine maintenance and for repairs as long as those repairs  do not
exceed
25% of the value of the billboard in any given year, or the  repairs do
not
use substantially different materials. For example, if an  outdoor
advertising company attempted to replace a wood billboard  frame with a
metal
frame, it would be difficult to make the upgrade since wood  is a very
different material than metal, and the cost would probably  exceed 25%
of the
value of the billboard.

In regard to the issue of relocation of billboards, Board  members were
uncertain of any criteria that have been recommended to  insure that any
relocated billboard would not harm the visual appeal of any  Durham
neighborhood, including downtown.  For example, without  specific
guidelines,
Board members discussed whether or not billboards could be  erected in
an
area that might result in an unsightly cluster effect, or  might harm a
neighborhood’neighborhood’<WBR>s curb appeal, or, in the case of downtight 
block
downtown’s emerging skyline.  As a result of this  uncertainty, the
Board
recommends to the community that if Fairway re-submits text  amendment
language, the issue of relocation would benefit from a  community
discussion
about appropriate criteria for relocation; and, that serious  thought
should
be given to the formation of a commission of government,  community and
industry representatives which would consider any relocation  of
billboards
along Durham’s main
corridors.

Very serious consideration was given to the issue of allowing  digital
billboards in our community.  Members of the Board could  come to no
consensus on whether or not digital billboards brought value  or harm
to our
community --- and it was clear that a consensus was not going  to be
achieved.  If  one assumes that digital billboards are an  effective
message
provider, some Board members saw value in digital billboards  as they
relate
to marketing downtown events, providing opportunities for  less
expensive
marketing for downtown businesses, and providing amber alerts  and other
emergency messages that could benefit our community.  On the  other
hand,
other Board members were concerned about the visual impact of  digital
billboards, especially since no one could be certain where  future
digital
billboards might be located (other than on main corridors,  and near
commercial areas), and what impact they might have on any  neighborhood
(some
neighborhoods may be located
near commercial areas) in Durham.  Since Board members were  simply not
knowledgeable about where digital billboards would be  located, and
therefore
would not know what impact they might have on any  neighborhood, Board
members could not reach any  consensus.

In the final analysis, the DDI Board of Directors is composed  of 45
thoughtful business, community and political leaders.  These 45  people
will
have different opinions of what is good, or not good, for  our
community’s
future growth.   Sometimes, not often, reaching a consensus on  a
controversial community issue is simply not possible.  And, in  those
instances, we have an obligation to agree to disagree with  each other,
and
vote to take the action to take no  action.

If you have any questions, or would like to discuss my  Board’s decision
further, please feel free to give me a  call.

Cordially yours,

William A. Kalkhof
President

Cc:  Mr. Steve  Toler

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