[Durham INC] [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in Durham
RW Pickle
randy at 27beverly.com
Mon Jan 19 19:49:28 EST 2009
I'm not on a bunch of these other lists. But I posed the question to
Fairway today about removing as many billboards as the new digital
billboards will replace (7 changes a minute would be 6 billboards to be
removed if a digital billboard was to replace a non-digital one). It was
clearly not going to happen like that. They had no intention of removing
any billboards but the one the new digital billboard would replace.
RWP
27 Beverly
>
> Kelly
>
> I have no vested interest in having all of us consider any proposal....
> because there isn't any proposal yet!
>
> You seem pretty vested in getting everyone to make up their minds before
> they've even heard what is being proposed. Why?
>
> Try the same question I asked John, "If Fairway offered to take down all
> of
> their signs in exchange for one single electronic board, would you vote
> for
> that?"
>
> How would you vote, Kelly?
>
> If you know what they are proposing, please share it. If you don't know,
> then why the push to get everyone to vote prior to hearing it? What's the
> rush?
>
> Bill
>
>
> In a message dated 1/19/2009 3:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> kjj1 at duke.edu writes:
>
>
>
>
> Marcia--
> Your point is well taken. And Rodrigo's email was simple & to the point.
>
> I can see why Fairway and their hired representatives want Durhams
> existing
> prohibition of electronic billboards overturned. What I don't understand
> is
> what Mike and Bill have invested in having all of us consider Fairway's
> proposal? Why they insist on putting "compromise" on the table? Why
> should we even
> consider overturning our existing billboard ordinances to allow
> electronic
> billboards? It seems likely to me that the reason there's no text to
> consider
> is that Fairway withdrew proposed text when they sensed the depth of
> community
> resistance to their electronic billboards.
>
> The bit about Durham's foodie culture being saved by electronic billboard
> ads directing hungry highway drivers to an independent restaurant is
> perhaps
> the most entertaining fantasy I've read so far. As if the success of
> Durham's
> foodie culture will be helped by electronic billboards . . . . why do we
> need
> to be good enough to warrant coverage in Southern Living, Food & Wine,
> Gourmet, or any other national publication when our home-grown foodie
> restaurants
> can be saved by Fairway's electronic billboards.
>
> Kelly
>
> Marcia Kirinus wrote:
>
>
> Mike - Seems like the community has made up it's mind. I'm not sure I
> would
> constitute a firm resolve as an 'emotional reaction'. The only thing I'm
> confused about is why you want to encourage Fairway to continue
> discussions.
> What's in it for you? If you have opposing views, stop beating your
> chest,
> and tell us (all) why we need to be pro billboards. No theatrics, no
> innuendoes, no finger pointing - what is good? What facts do you want
> to share with
> the rest of us that could perhaps sway us? I never thought of the greater
> part of Durham as narrow minded. By 'greater' I mean bigger NOT better.
> Why
> go through years worth of negotiations when it is obvious that billboards
> are
> not wanted. I just don't get your point.
> With respect, Marcia on Carolina.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Mike B. for at least be willing to listen.
>
>
> What I find confusing is the emotional reaction people have to
> billboards.
>
>
> Like you, I've tried to remain objective and listen to both sides before
> taking a position. I've even willing to participate in discussions, if
> asked, to get everything that's spoken written down to make sure we're
> accurate in the decision making process.
>
>
> Which I'd like to see compared to the long series of discussions that
> just
> took place recently regarding a very large development proposal near our
> neighborhoods.
>
>
> While I was not personally involved in them, I trusted the folks who
> were
> to represent the best interests of the community.
>
>
>>From what I understand, neither side agreed with each other in the
> beginning. Even along the way, several proposals and drafts were
> rejected
> for one reason or another, but eventually each side came to an agreement
> that they could live with (literally in their back yards).
>
>
> That took a lot of time, effort, debate, argument, counter point,
> compromise
> and understanding on several sides (city, neighborhood and developer)
> over
> months and months of meetings, but I believe from the recent newspaper
> articles and the decision to support it by the planning commission that
> they
> came to a very workable solution.
>
>
> I'm just as concerned about the brightness, neighborhood intrusion, past
> litigation and visual blight billboards are currently associated with,
> just
> like most of us are.
>
>
> Why can't this same process be followed and as much effort put into
> finding
> a better solution to what we have now vs. what may be agreed to, IN
> WRITING, so that everyone has had an opportunity to see what's possible.
>
>
> There's a lot of rhetoric and chest beating going on regarding billboards
> on
> our listserves and in the papers. Some of it is warranted, some of it
> not.
>
>
> But before anyone takes a final position on this issue, doesn't it make
> sense to discuss it based on facts and written enforceable documentation
> rather than innuendo and theatrics?
>
>
> It's my understanding that these new digital billboards have an
> integrated
> light sensor that doesn't allow them to get any brighter (and sometime
> significantly so) than the current way of lighting them. I also
> understand
> that they're proposing to use a local source and donate time/space(as
> they've done for many years) to non-profits and community sponsored
> issues
> that significantly affect Durham's bottom line. Where's that role or
> participation in the community stand with us? Are they willing to thin
> out
> some of their billboards along areas that WE feel ought to have
> significant
> additional buffers? What's enforceable that can be included into our
> ordinances to prevent future litigation? Can solar and wind energy
> counter
> their carbon footprint or counter it vs. what's happening now?
>
>
> Before asking people to take a stand 'fer or agin it' maybe there's still
> time to start getting at what's really bothering us about them and to
> come
> up with better proposals and solutions, rather than telling people that
> the
> community has already made up it's mind.
>
>
> Have you?
>
>
> "It is better to debate a question without settling it, than to settle a
> question without debating it"
> --Jespeh Joubert
>
>
> Mike Shiflett
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Bacon" <_michael at snowplow.mic_
> (mailto:michael at snowplow.org) >
> To: "Mike - Hotmail" <_mwshiflett at hotmail.mws_
> (mailto:mwshiflett at hotmail.com) >
> Cc: "owdNA" <_owdna at yahoogroups.owd_ (mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com) >
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic
> billboards
> in Durham
>
>
>
>
> (Apparently I missed the OWDNA list when replying. Reposted for full
> coverage... :)
>
>
> Mike,
>
>
> I may be missing something, but last time I checked, 147, 15-501, 70,
> and
> 85 ran near our homes, schools, churches, and parks?
>
>
> The biggest part of the proposal is to allow lighted electronic
> billboards.
> There's no reason we need them and no reason they're good for Durham,
> other than to line Fairway's pocketbooks.
>
>
> I have not so fond memories of Fairway when they spent tons of campaign
> money to knock a few cracks in Asheville's billboard ordinances, then
> immediately went on a building spree, coating the town with new
> billboards
> and increasing the sizes of existing ones. One was so reviled that a
> rebellious soul went and chainsawed the thing in half, prompting weeks
> of
> laudatory letters to the editor in the Citizen-Times. I've seen at
> least a
> previous generation of what Fairway Outdoor Advertising has in mind for
> what it thinks is just a little improvement, and I can say quite
> clearly, I want none of it.
>
>
> I've been quiet on this issue, but only because I'm a bit overwhelmed
> with
> other stuff at the moment. But while I respect the sentiment of, "cool
> down, let's take a look at this," ask any current or former resident of
> Asheville about this firm, and they'll tell you.
>
>
> Don't. Trust. Fairway.
>
>
> -Michael
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:
>
>
>
> As far as I've been able to understand from listening to both sides of
> this
> issue, at no time have I heard or seen evidence that the billboard
> industry
> is proposing to put up new ".........flashing billboards near our
> homes,
> schools, churches, and parks." From the previous INC meeting and from
> what
> I've read in the newspapers, they only want to have them along the
> current
> legal locations that they are now. That being US85, 15-501, 70 and
> 147.
>
>
> I have not heard that they are looking at upgrading any signs to
> digital
> anywhere near any of the above.
>
>
> Can someone can provide confirmation or evidence of this?
>
>
> In the meantime, I'm still trying to understand exactly what it being
> proposed and presented in the text amendment.
>
>
> Mike Shiflett
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly Jarrett" <_kjj1 at duke.edu_ (mailto:kjj1 at duke.edu) >
> To: "owdNA" <_owdna at yahoogroups.owd_ (mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com) >;
> "PAC2"
> <_pac2 at yahoogroups.pac_ (mailto:pac2 at yahoogroups.com) >
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:41 AM
> Subject: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in Durham
>
>
>
>
> For those who have been following the electronic billboard issue, the
> following might be of interest:
>
>
> Forwarded from INC listserv:
>
>
> folks,
>
>
> Let us celebrate a victory for the community...
>
>
> In choosing to do nothing, the DDI board decided not to support the
> billboard industry.
>
>
> This decision represents a set-back for those trying to stick big,
> bright,
> flashing billboards near our homes, schools, churches, and parks.
> (Thanks go
> to those DDI board members who spoke out against this terrible idea.)
>
>
> The struggle continues to stop the billboard industry from overturning
> the
> current ban on electronic billboards in Durham.
>
>
> But today we celebrate a victory for common sense.
>
>
> have a great weekend,
> John
>
>
>
>
> January 15, 2009
>
>
> Mr. Paul Hickman
> General Manager
> Fairway Outdoor Advertising
> P. O. Box 10545
> Raleigh, NC 27605
>
>
> Dear Paul,
>
>
> Several weeks ago Steve Toler and you asked that the DDI Board of
> Directors
> consider your request to the City of Durham related to revised text
> amendment language related to the outdoor advertising industry in
> Durham.
>
>
> What follows is a summary of the DDI Board’s lengthy and thoughtful
> discussion, and its decision.
>
>
> As DDI understands, last summer, Fairway Outdoor Advertising submitted
> an
> application, which is still pending, for a text amendment revision to
> the
> UDO related to Durham’s billboard ordinance. After submitting its
> application, Fairway representatives met with members of Planning
> Department, which forwarded the application to the Joint City-County
> Planning Committee for review. The JCCPC recommended to Fairway that it
> begin a process of meeting with community organizations to discuss the
> billboard proposal. Following the JCCPC meeting, we understand that
> Fairway
> withdrew the draft language portion of its text amendment application;
> and,
> in good faith, began scheduling meetings for its community outreach
> effort.
> After completing its community outreach effort, Fairway may re-submit
> revised draft text amendment language as part of its current
> application.
>
>
> So, technically, until Fairway re-submits formal draft text amendment
> language for its application, currently there is no formal text
> amendment
> “on the table.â€
>
>
> While there is no formal text amendment language to consider at this
> time,
> DDI recognizes the substantial community interest about this issue,
> and in
> keeping with DDI’s long standing effort to lend its voice to the
> discussion
> of important community issues, and responding to a request of Fairway,
> a DDI
> Partner in Progress, the DDI Board of Directors held a lengthy and
> thoughtful discussion at its meeting on January 15th.
>
>
> After very careful consideration of facts as understood by the members
> present, and of the pros and cons of how this issue relates to our
> community, and in particular downtown, members of the Board of
> Directors
> were unable to come to a consensus on any recommendation, and
> therefore DDI
> voted to take no action related to this issue.
>
>
> In the interest of disclosure to Fairway and the public, the Board
> asked
> that I elaborate on the reason for our decision to take no action.
>
>
> The Board’s discussion focused on three main areas: the repair and
> landscaping of billboards currently in our community; the possible
> relocation of billboards within the community; and, the issue of
> allowing
> digital billboards.
>
>
> Board members did wish to encourage the repair and landscaping of
> billboards
> currently in our community. Members were of the opinion that given the
> unsightly nature of many Durham roadsides, and of some billboards, our
> community’s appearance would benefit from the repair and landscaping of
> current billboards. However, repair or upgrade of billboards is
> difficult.
> As DDI understands, the current Durham billboard ordinance allows for
> routine maintenance and for repairs as long as those repairs do not
> exceed
> 25% of the value of the billboard in any given year, or the repairs do
> not
> use substantially different materials. For example, if an outdoor
> advertising company attempted to replace a wood billboard frame with a
> metal
> frame, it would be difficult to make the upgrade since wood is a very
> different material than metal, and the cost would probably exceed 25%
> of the
> value of the billboard.
>
>
> In regard to the issue of relocation of billboards, Board members were
> uncertain of any criteria that have been recommended to insure that any
> relocated billboard would not harm the visual appeal of any Durham
> neighborhood, including downtown. For example, without specific
> guidelines,
> Board members discussed whether or not billboards could be erected in
> an
> area that might result in an unsightly cluster effect, or might harm a
> neighborhood’neighborhood’<WBR>s curb appeal, or, in the case of
> downtown, m
> downtown’s emerging skyline. As a result of this uncertainty, the
> Board
> recommends to the community that if Fairway re-submits text amendment
> language, the issue of relocation would benefit from a community
> discussion
> about appropriate criteria for relocation; and, that serious thought
> should
> be given to the formation of a commission of government, community and
> industry representatives which would consider any relocation of
> billboards
> along Durham’s main
> corridors.
>
>
> Very serious consideration was given to the issue of allowing digital
> billboards in our community. Members of the Board could come to no
> consensus on whether or not digital billboards brought value or harm
> to our
> community --- and it was clear that a consensus was not going to be
> achieved. If one assumes that digital billboards are an effective
> message
> provider, some Board members saw value in digital billboards as they
> relate
> to marketing downtown events, providing opportunities for less
> expensive
> marketing for downtown businesses, and providing amber alerts and other
> emergency messages that could benefit our community. On the other
> hand,
> other Board members were concerned about the visual impact of digital
> billboards, especially since no one could be certain where future
> digital
> billboards might be located (other than on main corridors, and near
> commercial areas), and what impact they might have on any neighborhood
> (some
> neighborhoods may be located
> near commercial areas) in Durham. Since Board members were simply not
> knowledgeable about where digital billboards would be located, and
> therefore
> would not know what impact they might have on any neighborhood, Board
> members could not reach any consensus.
>
>
> In the final analysis, the DDI Board of Directors is composed of 45
> thoughtful business, community and political leaders. These 45 people
> will
> have different opinions of what is good, or not good, for our
> community’s
> future growth. Sometimes, not often, reaching a consensus on a
> controversial community issue is simply not possible. And, in those
> instances, we have an obligation to agree to disagree with each other,
> and
> vote to take the action to take no action.
>
>
> If you have any questions, or would like to discuss my Board’s decision
> further, please feel free to give me a call.
>
>
> Cordially yours,
>
>
>
>
> William A. Kalkhof
> President
>
>
> Cc: Mr. Steve Toler
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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