[Durham INC] [C+H Neighborhood] Copper Theft

[RW Pickle]

Tax on recycled items is double taxation because the tax was
paid/collected when sold (sales tax). It's true for HVAC copper just as it
is with aluminum soda cans. It's true it would be income (if taxed) to the
party selling it, but if it's that big of a deal, the re-cycler has that
info already in their paperwork and could provide it to any authority that
wishes to chase the nickels and dimes. It's not a loop hole, it's double
taxation and may even thwart recycling efforts.

Income from the sell of stolen  copper should be small at best. There are
many bigger fish to fry...

RWP
27 Beverly

> Randy,
>
> If you examine it closely, it isn't a tax on recycling, it is a tax on
> income, income which is currently evading tax illegally.  It is
> currently the responsibility of the income receiver to declare it,
> however it is only the law-abiding (like you) who follow the rules and
> properly declare their income. This simply causes the seller to
> formally recognize their income - just like the rest of us.
>
> Nothing special here, it looks like it's just closing a loophole which
> allows illegal activity to flourish, and raising funds for the state
> in the process.
>
> -crc
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:27 PM, RW Pickle <randy at 27beverly.com> wrote:
>> So now, even though many recycling efforts have failed, we want to
>> further
>> "tax" the recycling industry? I understand the desire of this, but
>> recycling should be rewarded and not penalized. And adding to the burden
>> is not the way to do this. You already have to have a valid photo ID to
>> recycle metals (at valid recycling operations) and personal information
>> is
>> gathered in that process. What's the purpose of the legislation when
>> thieves can just haul their booty to VA (like the manhole cover thefts
>> that occurred last year)? These are thefts of personal property (from
>> private property typically) and do not effect the common nature of
>> city-wide neighborhoods. Home owners insurance generally covers the
>> theft
>> so there is no public loss. It's not a neighborhood issue when only
>> individuals are the ones involved... And although I'll suggest this with
>> no supporting evidence, it may be that the individual property owners
>> are
>> involved in the thefts themselves. It would be a lot cheaper to pay the
>> insurance premiums than replace a HVAC system in a property for sell.
>> Not
>> may homes have ever had the copper removed while occupied...
>>
>> In conversations just now with the Captain of District 3, he said copper
>> theft has almost disappeared. He didn't recall one in the last 30 days.
>> And he didn't recall it being an issue across the City when the whole
>> Police force leadership met last. There are more car thefts across this
>> City than copper thefts. And this is every day... So are junk yards
>> next?
>>
>> This is another "feel good" issue that is best left out of our
>> Legislative
>> Delegation's hands. I'll mention this again, a far better issue for them
>> to take forward is a communication/database system where all local law
>> enforcement can find out information. As an example, Durham County
>> Sheriff's Department does not have access to the P2P system that Durham
>> City Police uses. And as you spread out across our region, you have
>> Orange, Wake, Person, etc. that do not have the same access of
>> information
>> sharing. The week before Eve Carson was shot, those involved were over
>> in
>> Orange County (they didn't live there) and were stopped for another
>> issue.
>> Had Orange County been able to see they were on probation in Durham,
>> they
>> would have been in jail and not involved in the Carson death. To me,
>> this
>> is one of the most pressing law enforcement issues that would make all
>> of
>> our streets safer.
>>
>> Build a metal box around your HVAC ststem to protect it from theft if
>> it's
>> an issue, don't ask our Legislative Delegation to waste time on personal
>> issues...
>>
>> RWP
>> 27 Beverly
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think this is an excellent resolution. In addition to being a
>>> neighborhood
>>> issue, it is also a crime issue. Therefor (in my opinion) it should  be
>>> endorsed by all five of Durham's Partners Against Crime organizations,
>>> Durham
>>> Businesses Against Crime, and InterNeighborhood Council.
>>>
>>> Since I'm not subscribed to PAC 1, 3, 4, & 5, perhaps someone will
>>> forward
>>> this suggestion to the others.
>>>
>>> Bill Anderson
>>> PAC2
>>>
>>> In a message dated 3/12/2009 12:02:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> Ken at KenGasch.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please take a gander at resolution below. Authored by Colin  Crossman
>>> and
>>> me..
>>>
>>> Would like for Cleveland-Holloway to sponsor.   (i.e. place in hopper
>>> for
>>> INC)
>>>
>>> Comments?  Questions?  Go,  no-Go?
>>>
>>> Ken  Gasch
>>> ********************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>> Whereas,  the current laws respecting the theft of copper, including
>>> the latest  revisions passed by the North Carolina General Assembly in
>>> _____, have not  been successful in stemming the tide of copper theft;
>>> and
>>>
>>> Whereas,  though the economic downturn has decreased the price of
>>> copper, the  magnitude of the problem is only increasing, and the
>>> injury done to the  community is substantial; and
>>>
>>> Whereas, the State of North Carolina and  the several counties and
>>> municipalities are facing an extreme budget  shortfall, and that such a
>>> shortfall is not helped by the fact that metal  recyclers do not report
>>> metal sales to the taxing authority, and this  results in a tremendous
>>> amount of untaxed economic activity;
>>>
>>> IT IS  HEREBY RESOLVED that the Durham InterNeighborhood Council
>>> express the sense  of the neighborhoods to the Durham Elected Officials
>>> and the Durham State  Delegation that copper theft remains a problem
>>> and that the state should  look into alternatives which cause all metal
>>> transactions to be reported to  the Revenue Office, linked with a valid
>>> tax id number of the metal seller,  for all transactions above  $10.00.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Crossman Properties, LLC
> 762 Ninth St #591
> Durham, NC 27705
> www.CrossmanProperties.com
>


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