[Durham INC] let's help the City with ideas...
Joshua Allen
allen.joshua at gmail.com
Sat Mar 6 16:30:51 EST 2010
This is much more complicated than it sounds on the surface. Not only would
free open-source GIS software need to exist, the City needs software support
for whatever they use. So if there are problems, someone is responsible for
delivering fixes, etc. Beyond that, the GIS needs to be populated with the
data used by the City. This migration can be very costly and time
consuming. Then you have to train the IT staff and city departments that
use the software. You also have to consider the feature differences
between the open source software the software that's been purchased. Free
software sounds good on the surface, but there is much more to it. It's
not as simple as switching between Microsoft Word and OpenOffice at home.
Enterprise software is much more complicated. I'm not saying it not worth
an investigation, but I'm hesitant to believe switching would save us much
money in the end and could turn into a disaster.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Matthew Dudek <matt.dudek at gmail.com> wrote:
> James,
>
> This is a very interesting idea. Are you aware of open source GIS software?
> And does it allow for being able to run web maps (or whatever they're
> called) like durham's current GIS website?
>
> Matt Dudek
> 502 Mallard Ave.
>
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2010, at 3:20 PM, James McManus <jmpmcmanus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I suggest the city stop paying for expensive, clunky proprietary software
>> and take the Open Source Software route. This would save money and at the
>> same time, if done correctly, improve city services. It also would be a
>> good promo for the city, showing that it is on the cutting edge of IT
>> technology. A great place to start would be the GIS department. It would
>> also be a good idea for the city to take an Open Data approach, provided GIS
>> data as well as other data free of charge. Most counties in the area
>> currently do that, and Durham looks very dysfunctional in comparison. This
>> would not necessarily save money, but it would get more out of what we are
>> spending on data, by providing greater accesses. It would also help citizens
>> to more easily participate in government, by having free access to data.
>>
>> Jim
>> TheOcean1 at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> That's actually Cheryl Shiflett's suggestion that Melissa and Matt
>>> applauded, and to which I join the ovation.
>>> I certainly hope Randy was kidding about the idea of selling Durham's
>>> most historic park, and suspect part of the reason for such a tepid response
>>> from this well informed "collective unit", as he calls it, are the original
>>> instructions "Send me your ideas.... and I'll forward them on to their
>>> targeted individuals."
>>> Why should we send our ideas to Randy? This collective unit knows which
>>> department their ideas target, and between emails and listservs, and Coffees
>>> w/Council, we have ample opportunity to make suggestions directly to those
>>> in charge. Why would we send them to Randy Pickle to see where they go?
>>> In fact, the city recognizes the abundance of good ideas floating around
>>> in our collective heads, and helped organize the neighborhood workshop that
>>> Pat speaks of, just to harvest some of the fruit of that think tank.
>>> I wasn't able to attend, but am unsurprised at one of the other great
>>> suggestions that resurfaced. Pat stated, "For example, maybe Parks and Rec
>>> needs fewer doers and more people who can organize the community to do
>>> stuff."
>>> That idea first surfaced when the city paid dearly for the ten year
>>> master plan for Parks and Rec back in 2003. One component of that plan was a
>>> survey of the citizen's recommendations, and partnering with neighborhoods
>>> to revitalize our existing facilities ranked 50% higher than our desire for
>>> more play grounds and equipment. Sadly, as Pat also pointed out, it's just
>>> too damned difficult.
>>> Until Parks & Rec truly embraces that plan, it will remain difficult, if
>>> not impossible. As valuable as that advice is, the opportunity to partner is
>>> drastically limited. Out of over 200 neighborhoods, only about a half dozen
>>> are qualified by having attained a nonprofit status that (as I understand
>>> it) is required. Those neighborhoods include Woodcroft, WHHNA, Forest Hills,
>>> Trinity Park and Duke Park, by way of Duke Park Preservation Initiative
>>> (DPPI).
>>> As the recently elected President of DPPI, I'm still struggling to get a
>>> lease with the city signed after four years with a draft on the table, that
>>> would permit the neighborhood to attend to the long neglected Bath House,
>>> and supply reasonable bathrooms to go along with our intensely popular
>>> playground. The kids (and parents) are still using the bushes, and the lease
>>> remains unsigned, the hold up, of course, is money. Money that would have
>>> been a great deal easier to find four years ago.
>>> That lack of money should be the reason we, as a City, should pursue this
>>> solution aggressively, not an excuse for avoiding it. An excellent
>>> illustration occurred last year, and the result was the City and the
>>> citizens both getting what they wanted, and at an unknown savings to boot.
>>> The mutual desire was the completion of a walking trail, Parks & Rec just
>>> didn't have the money to complete it ~ they thought.
>>> They did have the money for the materials, just not the labor. One single
>>> Parks & Rec employee, Rebecca Radke (spelling?) should be commended for
>>> suggesting a neighborhood work day. She brought the materials, and 50
>>> neighbors turned out to help install them! Boom, instant trail, all thanks
>>> to one city employee and the eager hands of the citizens.
>>> In these tight economic times, we should see a lot more of that kind of
>>> cooperation. I have other ideas, but that one stands the tallest. No need to
>>> forward it anywhere, Randy, but thanks for the offer, I'm working directly
>>> with the City staff.
>>> *Bill Anderson*
>>> President DPPI
>>> In a message dated 3/6/2010 11:33:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> matt.dudek at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Cheryl,
>>>
>>> I think those ideas are great. I'm curious though, aren't there
>>> property tax protections and support available for those on SSI and
>>> limited incomes? I remember my grandparents took advantage of the
>>> STAR program which I belive is a federal program.
>>>
>>> Additionally, Durham has already cut a large number of employees
>>> these past two years and further cuts will only be more
>>> counterproductive without specifically looking at the performance of
>>> individual
>>> programs.
>>>
>>> And finally, I believe Mr. Pickle was being facetious in
>>> suggesting we sell off our parks, but this would only bring one
>>> time profits and
>>> we would be selling valuable land at depressed values and in a bad
>>> market.
>>>
>>> I think there have been few responses not because people don't care
>>> about this issue, but because it is very complicated and can't be solved
>>> by budget cuts without more information and a better understanding of
>>> the full picture.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Matt Dudek
>>>
>>> 502 mallard ave.
>>> Cleveland-Holloway
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:17 AM, scjdurham at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>> > Here's a novel idea. Let's raise occupancy taxes on hotel rooms,
>>> > bring back that prepared food tax, come up with some sort of >
>>> entertainment tax, etc.
>>> >
>>> > A huge percentage of non-Durhamites come here to work and take
>>> their > money home to their municipality. But we pay to protect
>>> them when > they're here including police, fire, EMS and don't forget
>>> about
>>> the > road use going back and forth from their city to ours. They
>>> are > very welcome here but it would be nice if they paid their fair
>>> share.
>>> >
>>> > Some of the above items would be listed under discretionary >
>>> spending. Folks can decide whether it's how they want to spend > their
>>> excess $$ or not.
>>> >
>>> > Property taxes really hurt those on limited incomes, living on
>>> their > social security benefits, living on unemployment
>>> compensation or
>>> who > have just timed out their unemployment or simply can not
>>> secure a > higher paying job.
>>> >
>>> > Food for thought.
>>> >
>>> > Cheryl Shiflett
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Randy Pickle <rwpickle at gmail.com>
>>> > To: inc-list at durhaminc.org
>>> > Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 2:17 am
>>> > Subject: [Durham INC] let's help the City with ideas...
>>> >
>>> > to make the budget ends meet. I've been saying this everywhere I
>>> go. > Surely as a collective unit we can tell them where we see
>>> pork or > come up with some place to save some cash.
>>> >
>>> > Here's my 3 ideas:
>>> >
>>> > 1) We have a fleet of new garbage trucks; they have yet to get the
>>> > massive graphics package that you regularly see on the trash can
>>> end > of the truck. So what... We all know it's a garbage truck.
>>> Leave
>>> the > fancy graphics off. Maybe that will even help with resale...
>>> >
>>> > 2) Fleet says we have 2100 units in service as a City; 500 are
>>> fire > and safety. Let's leave those alone. That still leaves us
>>> 1600 > units. Let's cut that by 25% (down to 1200 units). Between the
>>> fuel, > maintenance, and gift giving of them to other cities,
>>> that's bound > to be a big figure... Fleet told Budget they needed $7M
>>> this next > year. When ask how they came to that figure they were told
>>> the > computer program they use told them. Budget told them to tell the
>>> > computer to figure out how to pay for them since it was so smart
>>> and > reduced it to $1M.
>>> >
>>> > 3) Employees... IBM laid off a 1000 workers recently. It's the >
>>> fastest way to make government leaner (and with less vehicles,
>>> that > works out as well). I personally would help add some of
>>> those > employees to a list (since I have found recently that some seem
>>> to > take their jobs for granted). There's no tenure in government and
>>> > some off the folks we have working for us have fallen into a
>>> comfort > zone where they just think showing up enough. As far as I
>>> know, we > still think of it as work. And it's time to get back to it...
>>> >
>>> > We started off the budget process with a $16M gap; at the >
>>> neighborhood Engagement Workshop we heard it was $13M; in the
>>> budget > prep meetings this week it's now down to $8+M. So we're
>>> getting
>>> there.
>>> >
>>> > Send me your ideas (not your jokes about it all; be serious) and
>>> > I'll forward them on to their targeted individuals. Maybe someone >
>>> out there has just the idea that will make it all work. Otherwise > get
>>> ready to pay more in property taxes. They never seem to go
>>> down, > only up... And you have to pay them every year... So once
>>> they go > up, we're stuck.
>>> >
>>> > RWP
>>> > 27 Beverly_______________________________________________
>>> > Durham INC Mailing List
>>> > list at durham-inc.org
>>> > http://www.durham-inc.org/list.html
>>> >
>>> >
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--
--Joshua
allen.joshua at gmail.com
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