[Durham INC] [pac3] Fwd: What is up with Durham drivers?

[John Martin]

You guys think you have problems?  How about if the City and DOT proposed widening Avondale Dr., Gregson, and Duke Streets so people could go even faster?

Well, that's what we're facing over here in East Durham with the proposal to widen Alston Ave.  The traffic count on Alston has been declining in recent years, and with the coming of the East End Connector, it should decline even more.  Still, certain city officials, led by the Mayor, want to widen Alston up to eight lanes at some points (as wide as Fayetteville Rd. at Southpoint Mall).  How fast/badly do you suppose people will drive under those circumstances?

Alston Ave. is NOT congested, and even if it were, slower traffic around an elementary school and in a residential neighborhood that has low-income senior-citizen housing is not a bad thing EXCEPT in the eyes of people who don't live here.

And who's supporting Alston Ave. widening?  People who don't live in this neighborhood.

And so, while the State struggles to balance the budget, DOT proposes spending 34 million dollars on a project that is neither needed nor wanted.

The City Council will hold a hearing on this March 21.  Please come help us tell them, "NO."

John Martin  


--- On Mon, 3/14/11, Barry Ragin <bragin at nc.rr.com> wrote:

> From: Barry Ragin <bragin at nc.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Durham INC] [pac3] Fwd: What is up with Durham drivers?
> To: "Reyn Bowman" <reynbowman at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Phillip Bost" <philliposophy at gmail.com>, "PAC-2 Durham" <pac2 at yahoogroups.com>, "DBACpac at yahoogroups.com" <DBACpac at yahoogroups.com>, "safedurham at yahoogroups.com" <safedurham at yahoogroups.com>, "pac5 at yahoogroups.com" <pac5 at yahoogroups.com>, "inc-list at rtpnet.org" <inc-list at rtpnet.org>, "pac1 at yahoogroups.com" <pac1 at yahoogroups.com>, "pac4" <pac4 at yahoogroups.com>, "pac3 at yahoogroups.com" <pac3 at yahoogroups.com>, "durhambikeandped at yahoogroups.com" <durhambikeandped at yahoogroups.com>, "ABCDdurham at yahoogroups.com" <ABCDdurham at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 2:01 PM
> 1) I'd love to see that data - we're
> not talking about I-40 or I-85 here, but rather, Duke
> Street, Alston Ave., Geer St., Markham Ave., Fayetteville
> Street, etc.
> 
> 2) Even if true, so what? Those of us who live on Durham
> streets are still the ones who have to deal with the problem
> of people driving on Durham streets. In fact, if most of the
> violators are from out of town, that should make enforcement
> easier. There's no local constituency to have to appease by
> lax enforcement of our laws.
> 
> This reflexive "don't blame us" attitude, which i've seen
> from one other person in response to this discussion,
> contributes absolutely nothing towards its resolution.
> 
> Barry Ragin
> 
> On 3/14/11 1:48 PM, Reyn Bowman wrote:
> > Keep in mind that more than half of the drivers on
> Durham's roads don't live in Durham!
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > On Mar 14, 2011, at 1:38 PM, Phillip Bost <philliposophy at gmail.com
> <mailto:philliposophy at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> Very interesting and important conversation
> happening in Duke Park/PAC-2 regarding Durham's apparently
> lawless roads. Conversation begins at the bottom and
> continues upward.
> >> I would love to read an 'official' response from
> someone working for Durham (and Durham's citizens).
> >> (I removed email addresses, last names, and
> addresses before sending.)
> >> Phil Bost
> >> Duke Park/PAC-2
> >> 
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Barry
> >> Date: Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:21 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [dukepark] Re: [pac2] What is up with
> Durham drivers?
> >> To: dukepark at yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:dukepark at yahoogroups.com>,
> PAC2 at yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:PAC2 at yahoogroups.com>
> >> 
> >> Steve - i wanted to thank you for passionately
> giving public voice to
> >> the frustration that i and so many others around
> Durham feel at the
> >> seeming inability of our city leaders to
> recognize, let alone take steps
> >> to control, this problem. Traffic calming and
> pedestrian safety are at
> >> the heart of the "livable streets" or "total
> communities" concepts which
> >> our leadership will occasionally reference without
> taking real action.
> >> 
> >> It's especially frustrating because there are
> people in city government
> >> who get it. I've worked with both Phil Loziuk and
> Mark Ahrendsen in the
> >> Transportation Department (there are others in
> that department who
> >> understand the issue as well), and Councilman
> Woodard has also been
> >> quick to push for improvements to pedestrian
> safety when able. But we've
> >> already seen numerous instances of serious injury
> and fatalities on our
> >> streets that do not result in any efforts to make
> them safer.
> >> 
> >> Earlier this year i had occasion to discuss with
> the head of the
> >> City/County Inspections Department a vehicle with
> their logo that i
> >> observed speeding down northbound Roxboro Street;
> i thought my concerns
> >> were taken seriously and i have no reason to
> believe that appropriate
> >> actions were not taken. But even if we assume that
> every official
> >> vehicle is speeding every time it's in use, and
> that we can get every
> >> one of those drivers to start observing speed
> limits and traffic laws,
> >> we're still only talking about a minuscule portion
> of the problem.
> >> 
> >> In nearly 40 years of being a driver, Durham
> remains the only place i've
> >> lived in where the number of people i know who are
> asking the police to
> >> enforce traffic laws far exceeds the number of
> people i know who have
> >> received traffic and speeding tickets. I know of
> attorneys who claim
> >> they represent drivers in court every week who are
> contesting their
> >> citations, but compared to the sheer number of
> illegal and dangerous
> >> actions i see on the road every single day in
> Durham, the number of
> >> citations actually written pales in significance.
> >> 
> >> People who deal with these things for a living
> talk about the "three
> >> E's:" engineering, education, and enforcement. Our
> opportunities for
> >> re-engineering our streets are somewhat
> constrained. In north Durham,
> >> for instance, Guess Road had its once in a
> lifetime widening a few years
> >> ago. Several serious pedestrian accidents,
> including at least one
> >> fatality involving a high school student heading
> across town to
> >> Riverside early one morning, did not inspire any
> changes in the road
> >> design, and other than the speed trailer showing
> up for a couple of
> >> weeks, i'm not sure there's ever been a consistent
> effort to enforce the
> >> 35 mile limit there. Similarly, in east Durham,
> Alston Ave., Miami Blvd,
> >> Highway 98, etc., all see more than their share of
> pedestrian accidents,
> >> including fatalities. The city and state have a
> chance to get it right
> >> with the Alston Ave. redesign, and there are
> theoretically some
> >> improvements coming along Miami Blvd. as a result
> of the East End
> >> connector project, but so far the proposals for
> Alston cannot be said to
> >> be entirely pedestrian friendly, and who knows how
> long it will be
> >> before the projects peripheral to the EEC are
> actually implemented.
> >> 
> >> Durham has, though, shown that it can move with
> haste and purpose in
> >> dealing with pedestrian safety issues, given the
> proper motivation.
> >> Several years back, a Duke grad student was
> injured crossing Broad
> >> Street near Whole Foods. Despite initial objects
> from state DOT
> >> personnel that adding a second traffic light at
> Perry Street, with
> >> pedestrian activated walk signals was not
> warranted according to the
> >> Traffic Manual, exactly that set-up was installed.
> As i recall, the
> >> entire process took less than 120 days from
> accident to new pedestrian
> >> safety features. Along Club Blvd., our friends in
> the Watts
> >> Hospital-Hillandale neighborhood successfully
> petitioned the city to
> >> install a state of the art traffic calming chicane
> set-up where Club
> >> passes through Oval Drive Park. Part of the
> justification of that
> >> project was to have been its use as a "pilot
> project" to determine
> >> whether or not similar projects might be justified
> in other parts of
> >> town. Hopefully enough data has been gathered over
> the past few years to
> >> start making that determination, and if the
> project has in fact made
> >> being a pedestrian safer, we can expect to see our
> city leadership
> >> including funding for similar pedestrian safety
> projects in other parts
> >> of town.
> >> 
> >> But, barring that, we are still dependent on the
> other two E's,
> >> education and enforcement, to make the difference
> in our communities.
> >> How many drivers in Durham know that NC state law
> requires drivers to
> >> yield to pedestrians in crosswalks under nearly
> all circumstances? How
> >> many times do i see someone attempting to cross
> Roxboro Street on their
> >> way to or from Duke Park, standing in the
> crosswalk while vehicles whizz
> >> by at speeds well in excess of 35 mph? How many
> traffic citations were
> >> written by Durham PD over the past 12 months for
> crosswalk encroachment,
> >> or failure to yield to pedestrians? I've asked
> that question a dozen
> >> times or more over the past few years, and i've
> never gotten an answer.
> >> My guess is that the answer is not materially
> different from zero.
> >> 
> >> As to Avondale Drive, traffic there is an
> interesting situation.
> >> Southbound, after you cross the freeway, two lanes
> merge into one,
> >> generally creating enough friction, at least when
> there is traffic on
> >> the road, to keep the bulk of the traffic at the
> speed limit, or even
> >> below. Northbound is a different story, as there
> are no natural barriers
> >> to speeds up to and exceeding 50 mph. What that
> means is that the
> >> overall numbers tend to obscure the problem - i
> recall from discussion
> >> with city traffic engineers that the 80th
> percentile was somewhere near
> >> 37mph, which is considered to be reasonable. On
> the other hand, though,
> >> a 48 hour study in 2005 showed at least one
> vehicle every hour exceeding
> >> 50 mph. To me, that suggests an enforcement based
> solution. I haven't
> >> seen any indication, however, from upper echelons
> of city and police
> >> management, that they consider traffic law
> enforcement to be a priority
> >> issue for Durham. Perhaps future generations will
> affectionately refer
> >> to Durham as the "Boston of the South."
> >> 
> >> When you add the traffic issues, housing code
> violations that have been
> >> ignored, animal abuse, domestic violence, dumping,
> lawn parking, noise
> >> violations, and other ongoing problems along
> Avondale, it's a wonder
> >> that city officials, who often tout the "broken
> windows" theory of
> >> community engagement, haven't made this gateway
> road to Durham a
> >> priority. Many of the violations along Avondale
> fall under what Durham
> >> officials politely call "complaint driven"
> ordinances. In theory, this
> >> encourages citizens to "be the eyes and ears" of
> Durham's various
> >> enforcement communities. In practice, what this
> really means is that
> >> reporting ongoing violations is just as likely to
> be met with "you know,
> >> there are many other neighborhoods in Durham who
> would willingly trade
> >> your problems for theirs" as it is with citations.
> The end result is
> >> probably predictable - homeowners moving out,
> landlords neglecting their
> >> properties, vacancies, trash, and a 10-20 year
> cycle of declining
> >> property values and neglect that will require
> expensive city
> >> intervention and a new generation of urban
> pioneers to overcome.
> >> 
> >> Sigh.
> >> 
> >> Barry Ragin
> >> 1706 Shawnee St.
> >> 
> >> > On 3/12/11 2:04 PM, Steve wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Oh I know! I drive up and down that street
> frequently and see the
> >> > scofflaws zooming around with no regard for
> others. I know that a pet
> >> > peeve of Barry Ragin is all the cars that he
> HEARS zooming around and
> >> > he doesn't even live on Avondale.
> >> >
> >> > It all comes down to two things: There is a
> complete lack of respect
> >> > for our neighborhoods, and an almost complete
> lack of consequences to
> >> > those who speed around through our
> neighborhoods, drive on the wrong
> >> > side of the road, run through stop signs and
> red lights, tailgate, and
> >> > in generally drive like, um, well,
> jackasses.
> >> >
> >> > If the city doesn't do something about this
> someone is going to be
> >> > killed by one of these reckless drivers. It's
> long past time for the
> >> > city to wake up to the seriousness of this
> problem.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Steve
> >> 
> >> >> On Mar 12, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Mark wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> If you really want to see the worst
> offenders spend an afternoon on
> >> >> Avondale. You will be shocked
> >> 
> >> >> *From*: Steve
> >> >> *Subject*: Re: [dukepark] Re: [pac2] What
> is up with Durham drivers?
> >> >>
> >> >> If they passed your in an opposed lane,
> then yes it's illegal. If
> >> >> they blocked the intersection then yes
> it's illegal.
> >> >>
> >> >> Durham, city of lawlessness!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve
> >> 
> >> >>> On Mar 12, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Laurie
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I was quite annoyed (and shocked)
> that two cars went around me the
> >> >>> other day, when I stopped at a green
> light so as not to block the
> >> >>> intersection. They then, of course,
> had to cut in front of me to get
> >> >>> back in the lane they needed to be
> in. Not technically illegal, but
> >> >>> very rude (not to mention
> dangerous).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Laurie
> >> >>> Everett Place
> >> 
> >> >>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Dan
> wrote:
> >> >>> You are right to be po'd Steve. One
> thing we have talked about
> >> >>> on the bikeped list serve is that
> citizens should ALWAYS call in
> >> >>> commercial and government vehicles
> they see engaged in reckless
> >> >>> driving/speeding. The City supposedly
> makes drivers who get
> >> >>> called in take remedial driving
> class.
> >> >>> Dan
> >> 
> >> >>> Steve writes:
> >> >>> Whether someone lives in Durham,
> works in Durham, WORKS FOR
> >> >>> the City of Durham, or is just
> passing through, their
> >> >>> reckless driving endangers us all. It
> also adversely affects
> >> >>> the quality of life for many, if not
> all of us, as we drive,
> >> >>> bike and walk throughout our city.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Steve
> >> 
> >> >>>> On Mar 12, 2011, at 9:00 AM,
> Jessica wrote:
> >> >>>> Let’s not make assumptions.
> Last time I checked our license
> >> >>>> plates say North Carolina. Just
> because someone is driving
> >> >>>> in Durham, let’s not assume
> that they are a Durham driver.
> >> 
> >> >>>> From Betty:
> >> >>>> *Subject:*Re: [pac2] What is up
> with Durham drivers?
> >> >>>> You are so right! While waiting
> to turn left at Murray &
> >> >>>> Roxboro, a number of times I have
> almost been hit by a car
> >> >>>> rushing through (their) red light
> - now after the light
> >> >>>> changes I wait until traffic has
> actually stopped both ways
> >> >>>> which irritates a driver behind
> me. Sorry about that. What
> >> >>>> purpose do posted speed limits
> serve? The majority
> >> >>>> obviously believe they don't
> apply to them. Sometimes I
> >> >>>> think that whatever speed limit
> is desired in an area, then
> >> >>>> the posted speed should be 10 mph
> less.
> >> >>>> One peeve of mine is that when I
> don't fly through a yellow
> >> >>>> light, a car behind me passes me
> in the left-turn lane. I
> >> >>>> thought a yellow light is a
> caution to slow and prepare to
> >> >>>> stop--not speed up so as not to
> stop. And slow down to look
> >> >>>> for a store, etc.--forget it.
> >> >>>> I tried displaying a "pace" decal
> but I think that
> >> >>>> irritated people. Also I have
> observed someone with said
> >> >>>> decal displayed not driving
> posted speed limits.
> >> >>>> No wonder new drivers speed and
> take reckless chances. Look
> >> >>>> at the example their parents set.
> I chastised my son-in-law
> >> >>>> in Greensboro for this with his
> two kids and his answer
> >> >>>> "you have to drive over the speed
> limit to prevent other
> >> >>>> drivers from running over you."
> In his residential area,
> >> >>>> where roads are real curvy, the
> posted MPH is 25 but
> >> >>>> everyone ignores it--even him.
> >> >>>> This is not to say that on the
> highway, I may go 5-7 mph
> >> >>>> over the speed limit but in
> residential areas I do obey the
> >> >>>> limit--mostly out of respect for
> all the pedestrians and
> >> >>>> also TO OBEY THE LAW which I am
> not above!
> >> >>>> Our neighborhood has 25 MPH signs
> (my street doesn't) it
> >> >>>> only has 11 houses and the
> sanitation, etc. trucks fly down
> >> >>>> it, not to mention the UPS
> trucks. In recent months it has
> >> >>>> been used as a short-cut (it's
> really not) between two
> >> >>>> streets but it doesn't omit a
> stop sign so they fly up to
> >> >>>> the sign, some actually stopping,
> others just slowing down.
> >> >>>> What part of STOP can't they
> read.
> >> >>>> And being female, I hate to say
> it, but I think women are
> >> >>>> the worst offenders. There,
> thanks for letting me vent.
> >> >>>> Betty
> >> 
> >> >>>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:41 PM,
> Steve wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I continue to be amazed a how
> truly awful many Durham
> >> >>>> drivers are. Last week I heard a
> bad car crash right in
> >> >>>> front of our house. A car
> speeding up a side-street slammed
> >> >>>> into the back or a car stopped at
> a stop sign in front of
> >> >>>> it, pushing it into traffic.
> Fortunately, injuries seemed
> >> >>>> to be light, though one car was
> totaled.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Wednesday while I was sitting
> on my front porch I
> >> >>>> witnessed a City of Durham Public
> Works truck go barreling
> >> >>>> down my street, engine roaring,
> at a speed of between 45 -
> >> >>>> 50 mph. Our speed limit is 25
> mph. Unfortunately, seeing
> >> >>>> city vehicles speed down my
> street is something I see just
> >> >>>> about every hour of every day.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This evening while I was out
> walking our dogs I witnessed a
> >> >>>> car come to a red light, slow
> down, then make a left turn
> >> >>>> against the red light onto N.
> Roxboro St. This is the very
> >> >>>> location where many car crashes
> have occurred; crashes
> >> >>>> caused by these same type of
> reckless actions. One neighbor
> >> >>>> who lives on the corner got so
> fed up with cars crashing
> >> >>>> into the fence that they sold
> their house and moved.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This is not the type of
> neighborhood I want to live in.
> >> >>>> This is not the type of city I
> want to live in.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Yes, I am very angry. The city
> should expect to hear more
> >> >>>> from me at Coffee with Council
> which is occurring this
> >> >>>> coming Monday.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Steve
> >> 
> >> __._,_.___
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> > 
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