INC NEWS - >>> ADMIN NOTE <<<

Wed Mar 28 14:02:52 EDT 2007

If this is something the other list members would like, to get emails
posted from across the City relative to other particular neighborhoods,
then I believe I can change the settings to allow for additional email
addresses.

There seems to be only a couple (probably less than 4%) of members of the
list who want this service. I suspect the others will see it as additional
email that will burden their already bulging email boxes. Certainly
anything posted to any other list can be posted to the INC list server. It
just can not be broadcast across the City with one click. If an additional
click by the sender is too much to ask to keep the conversations
pertinant, then perhaps the membership would like to keep it like it is. I
just administrate the list, I don't decide what is good or bad for those
who get the emails.

This is the only list I administrate where this is an issue. And since
those few who want this ability are not members of the other lists, it
would seem to be a personal preference rather than a general need. I'd
suggest if it was a universal thought process, I'd see the same thing
being requested across all lists and that is just not the case.

I have never introduced the INC audience to online polling. But it's a
good way to quickly get the pulse of what a membership thinks. In this
case, it would be the list membership. Should that be something the
membership would like to try, I'll see if I can fit it in. But just
looking up the emails in the box today, I see a number of admin duties
that require attention. This is part of the responsibility of doing this
that the membership never get to see. It's like I said, the machine runs
flawlessly if the humans follow the rules. It's the human factors that
always create the additional work. And when it's the spammers, they have
no mercy. Every bounced email they send comes back to the list server and
it adds up in a hurry. Not just in work on the list server end, but as
email to me notifying me of the problems that need attention. I could shut
this feature off and never know, but that would neglect the needs the list
server requires. I assume it would cease to function if it reached some
capacity. But because it is maintained, that has never happened. I have on
occasion (maybe even on this list), shut the server down for a period of
time to be able to not allow the spam to bounce. No idea where it goes at
that point since it is undeliverable. I just know after a couple of days
of this action, it begins to taper off again.

RWP
List Administrator

> might i humbly suggest that the parameter of (1) additional email
> address in step 2 below be changed to something a little higher, like (5)?
>
> Durham has a large and overlapping network of listservs on which to
> disseminate information. Posting to INC, one or more PAC lists, and one
> or more neighborhood lists at the same time is a pretty standard thing
> to do, and to my knowledge, none of the other lists (including the ones
> i moderate) will bounce a message as spam because it's been sent to 3 or
> 4 other lists.
>
> Barry Ragin
>
> RW Pickle wrote:
>> There seems to be some concern that there is something wrong with the
>> list
>> server. I will try to explain, in simple terms, what it is, what it
>> does,
>> and why anyone will experience problems as it relates to posting. It is
>> a
>> machine that has defined parameters. It doesn't look outside these and
>> make judgement calls. It makes green (as in go) or red (as in stop)
>> decisions. An all but .1% (and maybe less) of the reasons anyone would
>> ever have a problem posting is relative to human error. the machine
>> makes
>> very few mistakes. So it's people problems and not list server problems
>> that are the root of your concern. Perhaps understanding how the machine
>> works will aid in solving the issues people seem to be facing.
>>
>> The List server does three things when it receives an emailed post from
>> anyone. I'll use the character John Doe as my example. John is a member
>> of
>> the INC list for this example of how a list server works.
>>
>> First thing it does when it receives an emailed post is to see who it is
>> from and check the senders name against the member list.  Because when
>> you
>> signed up for the list server, you had to enter an email address. This
>> is
>> how the list server recognizes you. If John registered as
>> John.Doe at hotmail.com, that is the email address he must use when sending
>> a
>> post to the list server. If John Doe also has the email address of
>> John.Doe at aol.com, and sends a post from this address, the list server
>> doesn't recognize John because this is not the same address of the
>> member,
>> John Doe. It immediantly throws the email post from the aol address out.
>> It helps that no two addresses are the same. Like your fingerprint, each
>> one is different. John may get email regularly at both addresses, but
>> the
>> list server only knows that John is who he says he is when postings by
>> his
>> registered member email address; John.Doe at hotmail.com, arrive. John by
>> any
>> other email address or name is not John to the machine.
>>
>> The second thing the list server looks at, after recognizing that John
>> is
>> a member, is to see if there are a number of other email addresses that
>> John has sent this post. Emails sent to a number of addresses are
>> considered spam, because that is what spam is, broadcast email. Our list
>> server likes it when it is the only address to which a post is sent. But
>> it will allow a post with one additional email address. It does not
>> allow
>> Bcc (blind carbon copy) addresses at all. So if John sends a post to the
>> lister server and one other email address, the post flies through
>> uninterrupted. If John sends a post to several email addresses, even
>> though John is a member, it sees it as spam and kicks it out. It won't
>> allow John to spam the members.
>>
>> If it finds John is a member, and John has not sent the post to a bunch
>> of
>> other email addresses, it then looks at the size of the email post John
>> has sent.  Our list server is set to accept a post up to 40KB (40
>> kilobytes). As a measure of computer memory or storage, a kilobyte (KB)
>> is
>> approximately a thousand bytes (actually, 2 to the 10th power, or
>> decimal
>> 1,024 bytes). So 40KB would be a little more than 40,000 pieces of
>> information in an emailed post; or roughly 4,000 words. That's why it's
>> important to send messages to the list server in simple text. When sent
>> in
>> html format, the list server reads the html code and adds a byte for
>> every
>> piece of code it sees. If you know what html code looks like (just
>> select
>> View/Source from your browsers menu bar to see), then you realize that a
>> little code adds a great deal of bytes to any message. I have the
>> ability
>> as administrator to change this to a greater or lesser number, allowing
>> for larger or smaller posts. 40KB is generally large enough for just
>> about
>> any diatribe that comes through the service. Only rarely does it kick
>> out
>> a post due to size. And when it does, it typically is because it is sent
>> in html format or is sent with multiple emails attached such as in a
>> forwarded message. So size will throw the email post out as well.
>>
>> If the list server finds all of the three areas it checks as having no
>> problems, it immediantly sends out Johns' email post to every member of
>> the list. This all takes place in far less time than it has taken to
>> read
>> this far. But if there is a problem at any stage of the checking prior
>> to
>> sending out the post, the list server kicks out the emailed post and
>> sends
>> me an email telling me (the list administrator) that there is a post
>> waiting for me on the list server that needs my attention. When I check
>> my
>> email, I'll find a message from the list server. Here's a copy of what
>> it
>> sends me:
>>
>> As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
>> following mailing list posting:
>>
>>     List:    INC-list at DurhamINC.org
>>     From:    John Doe
>>     Subject: Can You Believe It!
>>     Reason:  Message has implicit destination
>>
>> At your convenience, visit:
>>
>>     http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/admindb/inc-list
>>
>> to approve or deny the request.
>>
>> In this particular message, the server tells me that Johns' emailed post
>> was kicked out because it was seen as spam. "Implicit destination"
>> refers
>> to multiple addresses in the Cc field of the emailed post. It didn't
>> check
>> for size because it was kicked out at step 2 and did not get to step 3.
>> So
>> it may have been too large as well, the machine will never know until it
>> is reposted by John. I have no ability to edit any emailed post, so I
>> just
>> can't fix the problem and send it on through. And since it doesn't know
>> John Doe from David Harris, it treats everyone the same. That is why
>> Davids' emailed post was rejected. It was a problem in step 1, 2, or 3.
>> It's that simple. It wasn't a problem with the list server, it was human
>> error that created the problem. The list server functioned just as it
>> should.
>>
>> So when I have to go to the list server (done via online connections) to
>> fix the problems that others create, I can do one of four things. I can
>> hold it for dealing with it later, I can discard it, I can reject it in
>> which case an email is sent back to the person sending the emailed post
>> explaining the problem with it, or I can approve it after I have further
>> examined the issue. This means I have to open every piece of problem
>> email
>> to determine the problem. I can't fix it, just do one of the 4 things
>> listed above. Because of the sheer volume at times (because anyone can
>> send the list server a post, even the same spammers that you get email
>> from), I have taken the position to reject all problems and try to
>> educate
>> those who create the problem in the first place. My thoughts are that a
>> better educated posting membership means less efforts as the
>> administrator. After all, that's the way it should be, effortless. Some
>> days, when we have a cross-posting event along with the regular spam,
>> it's
>> just nuts going to the list server so many times to fix the problems. If
>> we get under a spam attack (like has happened in the past, where some
>> spammer is using our posting email address as the return email on their
>> spam mail), it means as many as 2,000 messages get held for me to look
>> at
>> and resolve and 2,000 emails I get from the server telling me about the
>> problems. Just think about getting 2,000 emails a day for a week. It'll
>> drive you nuts dealing with it. But it seems that education about
>> problem
>> posting issues is useful although it only seems to work for a while and
>> then it's the same people who create the problem over again. I educate,
>> the problem goes away; it reoccurs again and I educate again. It's a
>> cycle...
>>
>> About the only time I will approve a held posting is when it relates to
>> size. If that is the reason for being held, and the size is just a
>> little
>> bit over, I will send it on through. Otherwise, when someone isn't a
>> member, or when posts are sent with implicit destinations, I have taken
>> the position to reject them all, regardless of the sender. You have to
>> draw the line somewhere and create boundaries in which to operate and
>> maintain a list server. that is why there is an administrator. He has to
>> administrate.
>>
>> So it's not the list server that is the issue, it's the problems the
>> members (and non-members) create that cause the problems. The machine
>> just
>> does what it is supposed to do, serve messages to the list members. I
>> think that most of the list is happy to not be getting a bunch of spam.
>> Enough of it comes via general email already.
>>
>> I hope this helps those who seem to think the problem is in the list
>> server. Human error is the culprit and I haven't figured out a way to
>> fix
>> that yet. It seems like education is the best way to resolve the human
>> issues. I have seen those who would regularly make mistakes, learn. And
>> in
>> learning, they made both of our lives easier and thier posting
>> experience
>> more enjoyable. That's what it's all about.
>>
>> RWP
>> List Administrator
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INC-list mailing list
>> INC-list at rtpnet.org
>> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INC-list mailing list
> INC-list at rtpnet.org
> http://lists.deltaforce.net/mailman/listinfo/inc-list
>

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