[Durham INC] [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in Durham

Mon Jan 19 16:19:49 EST 2009

Kelly

I have no vested interest in having all of us consider any proposal....  
because there isn't any proposal yet!

You seem pretty vested in getting everyone to make up their minds before  
they've even heard what is being proposed. Why?

Try the same question I asked John, "If Fairway offered to take down all of  
their signs in exchange for one single electronic board, would you vote for  
that?"

How would you vote, Kelly?

If you know what they are proposing, please share it. If you don't know,  
then why the push to get everyone to vote prior to hearing it? What's the  rush?

Bill

In a message dated 1/19/2009 3:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
kjj1 at duke.edu writes:

Marcia--
Your point is well taken. And Rodrigo's email was simple &  to the point.

I can see why Fairway and their hired representatives  want Durhams existing 
prohibition of electronic billboards overturned. What I  don't understand is 
what Mike and Bill have invested in having all of us  consider Fairway's 
proposal? Why they insist on putting "compromise" on the  table? Why should we even 
consider overturning our existing billboard  ordinances to allow electronic 
billboards? It seems likely to me that the  reason there's no text to consider 
is that Fairway withdrew proposed text when  they sensed the depth of community 
resistance to their electronic  billboards.

The bit about Durham's foodie culture being saved by  electronic billboard 
ads directing hungry highway drivers to an independent  restaurant is perhaps 
the most entertaining fantasy I've read so far. As if  the success of Durham's 
foodie culture will be helped by electronic billboards  . . . . why do we need 
to be good enough to warrant coverage in Southern  Living, Food & Wine, 
Gourmet, or any other national publication when our  home-grown foodie restaurants 
can be saved by Fairway's electronic  billboards.

Kelly

Marcia Kirinus wrote:  

Mike - Seems like the  community has made up it's mind. I'm not sure I would 
constitute a firm  resolve as an 'emotional reaction'.  The only thing I'm 
confused  about is why you want to encourage Fairway to continue discussions. 
What's  in it for you?  If you have opposing views, stop beating your  chest,  
and tell us (all) why we need to be pro billboards.  No  theatrics, no 
innuendoes, no finger pointing  - what is good?   What facts do you want to share with 
the rest of us that could perhaps  sway us? I never thought of the greater 
part of Durham as narrow  minded.  By 'greater' I  mean bigger NOT better.  Why 
go  through years worth of negotiations when it is obvious that billboards are  
not wanted.  I just don't get your point.
With respect, Marcia on  Carolina.

On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:

Thanks Mike B. for at least be willing to listen.

What I find confusing is the emotional reaction people have to  billboards.

Like you,  I've tried  to remain objective and listen to both sides before 
taking a position.   I've even willing to participate in discussions, if 
asked, to get everything that's spoken written down to make sure  we're 
accurate in the decision making process.

Which I'd like to see compared to the long series of discussions that  just 
took place recently regarding a very large development proposal near  our 
neighborhoods.

While I was not personally involved in them,  I trusted the folks who  were 
to represent the best interests of the community.

>From what I understand,   neither side agreed with each other in the 
beginning.   Even along  the way,  several proposals  and drafts were 
rejected 
for one reason or another, but eventually each side came to an  agreement 
that they could live with (literally in their back yards).

That took a lot of time, effort, debate, argument, counter point,  compromise 
and understanding on several sides (city, neighborhood and developer)  over 
months and months of meetings, but I believe from the recent  newspaper 
articles and the decision to support it by the planning commission  that they 
came to a very workable solution.

I'm just as concerned about the brightness,  neighborhood intrusion,  past 
litigation and visual blight billboards are currently associated  with, just 
like most of us are.

Why can't this same process be followed and as much effort put into  finding 
a better solution to what we have now vs. what may be agreed to,  IN 
WRITING,  so that  everyone has had an opportunity to see what's possible.

There's a lot of rhetoric and chest beating going on regarding  billboards on 
our listserves and in the papers. Some of it is warranted, some of it  not.

But before anyone takes a final position on this issue,  doesn't it make 
sense to discuss it based on facts and written enforceable  documentation 
rather than innuendo and theatrics?

It's my understanding that these new digital billboards have an  integrated 
light sensor that doesn't allow them to get any brighter (and  sometime 
significantly so) than the current way of lighting them.   I also understand 
that they're proposing to use a local source and donate  time/space(as 
they've done for many years) to non-profits and community sponsored  issues 
that significantly affect Durham's bottom line.  Where's that role or 
participation in the community stand with us? Are they willing to  thin out 
some of their billboards along areas that WE feel ought to have  significant 
additional buffers?    What's enforceable that can be included into our 
ordinances to prevent future litigation?   Can solar and wind energy  counter 
their carbon footprint or counter it vs. what's happening now?

Before asking people to take a stand 'fer or agin it'  maybe there's still 
time to start getting at what's really bothering us about them and to  come 
up with better proposals and solutions, rather than telling people  that the 
community has already made up it's mind.

Have you?

"It is better to debate a question without settling it,  than to settle a 
question without debating it"
--Jespeh Joubert

Mike Shiflett

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bacon" <_michael at snowplow.mic_ (mailto:michael at snowplow.org) >
To: "Mike - Hotmail" <_mwshiflett at hotmail.mws_ 
(mailto:mwshiflett at hotmail.com) >
Cc: "owdNA" <_owdna at yahoogroups.owd_ (mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com) >
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic  billboards 
in Durham

(Apparently I missed the OWDNA list when replying.  Reposted for full
coverage... :)

Mike,

I may be missing something, but last time I checked, 147, 15-501,  70,
and
85 ran near our homes, schools, churches, and parks?

The biggest part of the proposal is to allow lighted electronic
billboards.
There's no reason we need them and no reason they're good for  Durham,
other than to line Fairway's pocketbooks.

I have not so fond memories of Fairway when they spent tons of  campaign
money to knock a few cracks in Asheville's billboard ordinances,  then
immediately went on a building spree, coating the town with new
billboards
and increasing the sizes of existing ones. One was so reviled that  a
rebellious soul went and chainsawed the thing in half, prompting  weeks
of
laudatory letters to the editor in the Citizen-Times. I've seen  at
least a
previous generation of what Fairway Outdoor Advertising has in mind  for
what it thinks is just a little improvement, and I can say  quite
clearly, I want none of it.

I've been quiet on this issue, but only because I'm a bit  overwhelmed
with
other stuff at the moment. But while I respect the sentiment of,  "cool
down, let's take a look at this," ask any current or former resident  of
Asheville about this firm, and they'll tell you.

Don't. Trust. Fairway.

-Michael

On Jan 16, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:

As far as I've been able to understand from listening to both sides  of
this
issue,  at no time  have I heard or seen evidence that the billboard
industry
is proposing to put up new ".........flashing billboards near  our
homes,
schools, churches, and parks."  From the previous INC meeting  and from
what
I've read in the newspapers, they only want to have them along  the
current
legal locations that they are now.  That being US85, 15-501, 70  and
147.

I have not heard that they are looking at upgrading any signs  to
digital
anywhere near any of the above.

Can someone can provide confirmation or evidence of this?

In the meantime,  I'm  still trying to understand exactly what it being
proposed and presented in the text amendment.

Mike Shiflett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Jarrett" <_kjj1 at duke.edu_ (mailto:kjj1 at duke.edu) >
To: "owdNA" <_owdna at yahoogroups.owd_ (mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com) >; "PAC2" 
<_pac2 at yahoogroups.pac_ (mailto:pac2 at yahoogroups.com) >
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:41 AM
Subject: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in  Durham

For those who have been following the electronic billboard issue,  the
following might be of interest:

Forwarded from INC listserv:

folks,

Let us celebrate a victory for the community...

In choosing to do nothing, the DDI board decided not to support  the
billboard industry.

This decision represents a set-back for those trying to stick  big,
bright,
flashing billboards near our homes, schools, churches, and  parks.
(Thanks go
to those DDI board members who spoke out against this terrible  idea.)

The struggle continues to stop the billboard industry from  overturning
the
current ban on electronic billboards in Durham.

But today we celebrate a victory for common sense.

have a great weekend,
John

January 15, 2009

Mr. Paul Hickman
General Manager
Fairway Outdoor Advertising
P. O. Box 10545
Raleigh, NC   27605

Dear Paul,

Several weeks ago Steve Toler and you asked that the DDI Board  of
Directors
consider your request to the City of Durham related to revised  text
amendment language related to the outdoor advertising industry  in
Durham.

What follows is a summary of the DDI Board’s lengthy and  thoughtful
discussion, and its decision.

As DDI understands, last summer, Fairway Outdoor Advertising  submitted
an
application, which is still pending, for a text amendment revision  to
the
UDO related to Durham’s billboard ordinance.  After submitting its
application, Fairway representatives met with members of  Planning
Department, which forwarded the application to the Joint  City-County
Planning Committee for review. The JCCPC recommended to Fairway  that it
begin a process of meeting with community organizations to discuss  the
billboard proposal.   Following the JCCPC meeting, we understand that
Fairway
withdrew the draft language portion of its text amendment  application;
and,
in good faith, began scheduling meetings for its community  outreach
effort.
After completing its community outreach effort, Fairway may  re-submit
revised draft text amendment language as part of its current
application.

So, technically, until Fairway re-submits formal draft text  amendment
language for its application, currently there is no formal  text
amendment
“on the table.”

While there is no formal text amendment language to consider at  this
time,
DDI recognizes the substantial community interest about this  issue,
and in
keeping with DDI’s long standing effort to lend its voice to  the
discussion
of important community issues, and responding to a request of  Fairway,
a DDI
Partner in Progress, the DDI Board of Directors held a lengthy  and
thoughtful discussion at its meeting on January 15th.

After very careful consideration of facts as understood by the  members
present, and of the pros and cons of how this issue relates to  our
community, and in particular downtown, members of the Board  of
Directors
were unable to come to a consensus on any recommendation, and
therefore DDI
voted to take no action related to this issue.

In the interest of disclosure to Fairway and the public, the  Board
asked
that I elaborate on the reason for our decision to take no  action.

The Board’s discussion focused on three main areas:  the repair and
landscaping of billboards currently in our community; the  possible
relocation of billboards within the community; and, the issue  of
allowing
digital billboards.

Board members did wish to encourage the repair and landscaping  of
billboards
currently in our community.   Members were of the opinion that given the
unsightly nature of many Durham roadsides, and of some billboards,  our
community’s appearance would benefit from the repair and  landscaping of
current billboards.   However, repair or upgrade of billboards is
difficult.
As DDI understands, the current Durham billboard ordinance allows  for
routine maintenance and for repairs as long as those repairs do  not
exceed
25% of the value of the billboard in any given year, or the repairs  do
not
use substantially different materials. For example, if an  outdoor
advertising company attempted to replace a wood billboard frame  with a
metal
frame, it would be difficult to make the upgrade since wood is a  very
different material than metal, and the cost would probably exceed  25%
of the
value of the billboard.

In regard to the issue of relocation of billboards, Board members  were
uncertain of any criteria that have been recommended to insure that  any
relocated billboard would not harm the visual appeal of any  Durham
neighborhood, including downtown.  For example, without  specific
guidelines,
Board members discussed whether or not billboards could be erected  in
an
area that might result in an unsightly cluster effect, or might  harm a
neighborhood’neighborhood’<WBR>s curb appeal, or, in the case of downtown, m
downtown’s emerging skyline.  As a result of this  uncertainty, the
Board
recommends to the community that if Fairway re-submits text  amendment
language, the issue of relocation would benefit from a  community
discussion
about appropriate criteria for relocation; and, that serious  thought
should
be given to the formation of a commission of government, community  and
industry representatives which would consider any relocation  of
billboards
along Durham’s main
corridors.

Very serious consideration was given to the issue of allowing  digital
billboards in our community.  Members of the Board could  come to no
consensus on whether or not digital billboards brought value or  harm
to our
community --- and it was clear that a consensus was not going to  be
achieved.  If one  assumes that digital billboards are an effective
message
provider, some Board members saw value in digital billboards as  they
relate
to marketing downtown events, providing opportunities for  less
expensive
marketing for downtown businesses, and providing amber alerts and  other
emergency messages that could benefit our community.  On the other
hand,
other Board members were concerned about the visual impact of  digital
billboards, especially since no one could be certain where  future
digital
billboards might be located (other than on main corridors, and  near
commercial areas), and what impact they might have on any  neighborhood
(some
neighborhoods may be located
near commercial areas) in Durham.  Since Board members were  simply not
knowledgeable about where digital billboards would be located,  and
therefore
would not know what impact they might have on any neighborhood,  Board
members could not reach any consensus.

In the final analysis, the DDI Board of Directors is composed of  45
thoughtful business, community and political leaders.  These 45 people
will
have different opinions of what is good, or not good, for our
community’s
future growth.   Sometimes, not often, reaching a consensus on a
controversial community issue is simply not possible.  And, in those
instances, we have an obligation to agree to disagree with each  other,
and
vote to take the action to take no action.

If you have any questions, or would like to discuss my Board’s  decision
further, please feel free to give me a call.

Cordially yours,

William A. Kalkhof
President

Cc:  Mr. Steve  Toler

------------------------------------

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(http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oghpq6q/M=493064.12016263.12445670.8674578/D=groups/S=1705059418:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1232405854/L=/B=ejYrCUPDhE8-/J=12
32398654665336/A=4836041/R=0/SIG=11o19ppl5/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.co
m/dogzone/index.html)  
Connect w/others 
who love dogs.

All-Bran
_10  Day Challenge_ 
(http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o41ml04/M=493064.12016283.12445687.8674578/D=groups/S=1705059418:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1232405854/L=/B=ezYrCUPDh
E8-/J=1232398654665336/A=5202323/R=0/SIG=11aijbghb/*http://new.groups.yahoo.co
m/allbrangroup)  
Join the club and 
feel the benefits.

.

__,_._,___ 

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