[Durham INC] [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in Durham
Pat Carstensen
pats1717 at hotmail.com
Mon Jan 19 16:57:40 EST 2009
I would think the billboard is the worst possible way to publicize Durham foodie culture.
Ed and I have found quite a few places when we are doing the blue highways, but it has been based on thinking "Oh, cool place" as we drive by, from Jane and Michael Stern's road food website, or occasionally by using the little DOT food / gas / hotel signs. A billboard would make us think "tourist trap using its $$ to attract fools who don't know any better." I think the next generation publicity is a lot more promising for cool places to eat -- use Amazon type preference matching, Google maps and GPS to say "If you love Rue Cler and Dips, you'll love Bubba's Place"
Not to mention that most people going through just want someplace close enough to the highway that they won't get lost and that they recognize the brand of so they won't get anything really bad.
Regards, pat
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:57:24 -0500
From: kjj1 at duke.edu
To: mkirinus at gmail.com
CC: michael at snowplow.org; pac2 at yahoogroups.com; inc-list at durhaminc.org; owdna at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Durham INC] [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in Durham
Marcia--
Your point is well taken. And Rodrigo's email was simple & to the
point.
I can see why Fairway and their hired representatives want Durhams
existing prohibition of electronic billboards overturned. What I don't
understand is what Mike and Bill have invested in having all of us
consider Fairway's proposal? Why they insist on putting "compromise" on
the table? Why should we even consider overturning our existing
billboard ordinances to allow electronic billboards? It seems likely to
me that the reason there's no text to consider is that Fairway withdrew
proposed text when they sensed the depth of community resistance to
their electronic billboards.
The bit about Durham's foodie culture being saved by electronic
billboard ads directing hungry highway drivers to an independent
restaurant is perhaps the most entertaining fantasy I've read so far.
As if the success of Durham's foodie culture will be helped by
electronic billboards . . . . why do we need to be good enough to
warrant coverage in Southern Living, Food & Wine, Gourmet, or any
other national publication when our home-grown foodie restaurants can
be saved by Fairway's electronic billboards.
Kelly
Marcia Kirinus wrote:
Mike - Seems
like the community has made up it's mind. I'm not sure I would
constitute a firm resolve as an 'emotional reaction'. The only thing
I'm confused about is why you want to encourage Fairway to continue
discussions. What's in it for you? If you have opposing views, stop
beating your chest, and tell us (all) why we need to be pro
billboards. No theatrics, no innuendoes, no finger pointing - what is
good? What facts do you want to share with the rest of us that could
perhaps sway us? I never thought of the greater part of Durham as
narrow minded. By 'greater' I mean bigger NOT better. Why go through
years worth of negotiations when it is obvious that billboards are not
wanted. I just don't get your point.
With respect,
Marcia on Carolina.
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:
Thanks Mike B. for at least be willing to listen.
What I find confusing is the emotional reaction people have to
billboards.
Like you, I've
tried to remain objective and listen to both sides before
taking a position. I've
even willing to participate in discussions, if
asked, to get everything that's spoken written down to make
sure we're
accurate in the decision making process.
Which I'd like to see compared to the long series of
discussions that just
took place recently regarding a very large development
proposal near our
neighborhoods.
While I was not personally involved in them, I trusted the folks who were
to represent the best interests of the community.
From what I understand, neither
side agreed with each other in the
beginning. Even
along the way, several
proposals and drafts were rejected
for one reason or another, but eventually each side came to an
agreement
that they could live with (literally in their back yards).
That took a lot of time, effort, debate, argument, counter
point, compromise
and understanding on several sides (city, neighborhood and
developer) over
months and months of meetings, but I believe from the recent
newspaper
articles and the decision to support it by the planning
commission that they
came to a very workable solution.
I'm just as concerned about the brightness, neighborhood intrusion, past
litigation and visual blight billboards are currently
associated with, just
like most of us are.
Why can't this same process be followed and as much effort put
into finding
a better solution to what we have now vs. what may be agreed
to, IN
WRITING, so that
everyone has had an opportunity to see what's possible.
There's a lot of rhetoric and chest beating going on regarding
billboards on
our listserves and in the papers. Some of it is warranted,
some of it not.
But before anyone takes a final position on this issue, doesn't it make
sense to discuss it based on facts and written enforceable
documentation
rather than innuendo and theatrics?
It's my understanding that these new digital billboards have
an integrated
light sensor that doesn't allow them to get any brighter (and
sometime
significantly so) than the current way of lighting them. I also understand
that they're proposing to use a local source and donate
time/space(as
they've done for many years) to non-profits and community
sponsored issues
that significantly affect Durham's bottom line. Where's that role or
participation in the community stand with us? Are they willing
to thin out
some of their billboards along areas that WE feel ought to
have significant
additional buffers? What's
enforceable that can be included into our
ordinances to prevent future litigation? Can solar and wind energy
counter
their carbon footprint or counter it vs. what's happening now?
Before asking people to take a stand 'fer or agin it' maybe there's still
time to start getting at what's really bothering us about them
and to come
up with better proposals and solutions, rather than telling
people that the
community has already made up it's mind.
Have you?
"It is better to debate a question without settling it, than to settle a
question without debating it"
--Jespeh Joubert
Mike Shiflett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bacon" <michael at snowplow.org>
To: "Mike - Hotmail" <mwshiflett at hotmail.com>
Cc: "owdNA" <owdna at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding
Electronic billboards
in Durham
(Apparently I missed the OWDNA list when replying. Reposted for full
coverage... :)
Mike,
I may be missing something, but last time I checked, 147,
15-501, 70,
and
85 ran near our homes, schools, churches, and parks?
The biggest part of the proposal is to allow lighted electronic
billboards.
There's no reason we need them and no reason they're good for
Durham,
other than to line Fairway's pocketbooks.
I have not so fond memories of Fairway when they spent tons of
campaign
money to knock a few cracks in Asheville's billboard
ordinances, then
immediately went on a building spree, coating the town with new
billboards
and increasing the sizes of existing ones. One was so reviled
that a
rebellious soul went and chainsawed the thing in half,
prompting weeks
of
laudatory letters to the editor in the Citizen-Times. I've
seen at
least a
previous generation of what Fairway Outdoor Advertising has in
mind for
what it thinks is just a little improvement, and I can say
quite
clearly, I want none of it.
I've been quiet on this issue, but only because I'm a bit
overwhelmed
with
other stuff at the moment. But while I respect the sentiment
of, "cool
down, let's take a look at this," ask any current or former
resident of
Asheville about this firm, and they'll tell you.
Don't. Trust. Fairway.
-Michael
On Jan 16, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:
As far as I've been able to understand from listening to
both sides of
this
issue, at no
time have I heard or seen evidence that the billboard
industry
is proposing to put up new ".........flashing billboards
near our
homes,
schools, churches, and parks." From the previous INC meeting
and from
what
I've read in the newspapers, they only want to have them
along the
current
legal locations that they are now. That being US85, 15-501, 70 and
147.
I have not heard that they are looking at upgrading any
signs to
digital
anywhere near any of the above.
Can someone can provide confirmation or evidence of this?
In the meantime, I'm
still trying to understand exactly what it being
proposed and presented in the text amendment.
Mike Shiflett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Jarrett" <kjj1 at duke.edu>
To: "owdNA" <owdna at yahoogroups.com>;
"PAC2" <pac2 at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:41 AM
Subject: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards
in Durham
For those who have been following the electronic billboard
issue, the
following might be of interest:
Forwarded from INC listserv:
folks,
Let us celebrate a victory for the community...
In choosing to do nothing, the DDI board decided not to
support the
billboard industry.
This decision represents a set-back for those trying to
stick big,
bright,
flashing billboards near our homes, schools, churches, and
parks.
(Thanks go
to those DDI board members who spoke out against this
terrible idea.)
The struggle continues to stop the billboard industry from
overturning
the
current ban on electronic billboards in Durham.
But today we celebrate a victory for common sense.
have a great weekend,
John
January 15, 2009
Mr. Paul Hickman
General Manager
Fairway Outdoor Advertising
P. O. Box 10545
Raleigh, NC 27605
Dear Paul,
Several weeks ago Steve Toler and you asked that the DDI
Board of
Directors
consider your request to the City of Durham related to
revised text
amendment language related to the outdoor advertising
industry in
Durham.
What follows is a summary of the DDI Board’s lengthy and
thoughtful
discussion, and its decision.
As DDI understands, last summer, Fairway Outdoor Advertising
submitted
an
application, which is still pending, for a text amendment
revision to
the
UDO related to Durham’s billboard ordinance. After submitting its
application, Fairway representatives met with members of
Planning
Department, which forwarded the application to the Joint
City-County
Planning Committee for review. The JCCPC recommended to
Fairway that it
begin a process of meeting with community organizations to
discuss the
billboard proposal. Following
the JCCPC meeting, we understand that
Fairway
withdrew the draft language portion of its text amendment
application;
and,
in good faith, began scheduling meetings for its community
outreach
effort.
After completing its community outreach effort, Fairway may
re-submit
revised draft text amendment language as part of its current
application.
So, technically, until Fairway re-submits formal draft text
amendment
language for its application, currently there is no formal
text
amendment
“on the table.”
While there is no formal text amendment language to consider
at this
time,
DDI recognizes the substantial community interest about this
issue,
and in
keeping with DDI’s long standing effort to lend its voice to
the
discussion
of important community issues, and responding to a request
of Fairway,
a DDI
Partner in Progress, the DDI Board of Directors held a
lengthy and
thoughtful discussion at its meeting on January 15th.
After very careful consideration of facts as understood by
the members
present, and of the pros and cons of how this issue relates
to our
community, and in particular downtown, members of the Board
of
Directors
were unable to come to a consensus on any recommendation, and
therefore DDI
voted to take no action related to this issue.
In the interest of disclosure to Fairway and the public, the
Board
asked
that I elaborate on the reason for our decision to take no
action.
The Board’s discussion focused on three main areas: the repair and
landscaping of billboards currently in our community; the
possible
relocation of billboards within the community; and, the
issue of
allowing
digital billboards.
Board members did wish to encourage the repair and
landscaping of
billboards
currently in our community. Members were of the opinion
that given the
unsightly nature of many Durham roadsides, and of some
billboards, our
community’s appearance would benefit from the repair and
landscaping of
current billboards. However,
repair or upgrade of billboards is
difficult.
As DDI understands, the current Durham billboard ordinance
allows for
routine maintenance and for repairs as long as those repairs
do not
exceed
25% of the value of the billboard in any given year, or the
repairs do
not
use substantially different materials. For example, if an
outdoor
advertising company attempted to replace a wood billboard
frame with a
metal
frame, it would be difficult to make the upgrade since wood
is a very
different material than metal, and the cost would probably
exceed 25%
of the
value of the billboard.
In regard to the issue of relocation of billboards, Board
members were
uncertain of any criteria that have been recommended to
insure that any
relocated billboard would not harm the visual appeal of any
Durham
neighborhood, including downtown. For example, without specific
guidelines,
Board members discussed whether or not billboards could be
erected in
an
area that might result in an unsightly cluster effect, or
might harm a
neighborhood’s curb appeal, or, in the case of
downtown, might block
downtown’s emerging skyline. As a result of this
uncertainty, the
Board
recommends to the community that if Fairway re-submits text
amendment
language, the issue of relocation would benefit from a
community
discussion
about appropriate criteria for relocation; and, that serious
thought
should
be given to the formation of a commission of government,
community and
industry representatives which would consider any relocation
of
billboards
along Durham’s main
corridors.
Very serious consideration was given to the issue of
allowing digital
billboards in our community. Members of the Board could
come to no
consensus on whether or not digital billboards brought value
or harm
to our
community --- and it was clear that a consensus was not
going to be
achieved. If
one assumes that digital billboards are an effective
message
provider, some Board members saw value in digital billboards
as they
relate
to marketing downtown events, providing opportunities for
less
expensive
marketing for downtown businesses, and providing amber
alerts and other
emergency messages that could benefit our community. On the other
hand,
other Board members were concerned about the visual impact
of digital
billboards, especially since no one could be certain where
future
digital
billboards might be located (other than on main corridors,
and near
commercial areas), and what impact they might have on any
neighborhood
(some
neighborhoods may be located
near commercial areas) in Durham. Since Board members were
simply not
knowledgeable about where digital billboards would be
located, and
therefore
would not know what impact they might have on any
neighborhood, Board
members could not reach any consensus.
In the final analysis, the DDI Board of Directors is
composed of 45
thoughtful business, community and political leaders. These 45 people
will
have different opinions of what is good, or not good, for our
community’s
future growth. Sometimes,
not often, reaching a consensus on a
controversial community issue is simply not possible. And, in those
instances, we have an obligation to agree to disagree with
each other,
and
vote to take the action to take no action.
If you have any questions, or would like to discuss my
Board’s decision
further, please feel free to give me a call.
Cordially yours,
William A. Kalkhof
President
Cc: Mr. Steve
Toler
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