[Durham INC] [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in Durham
Kelly Jarrett
kjj1 at duke.edu
Mon Jan 19 17:16:20 EST 2009
Bill--
Whatever proposal there is will come from Fairway. Why are you so
invested in entertaining it? Why can't we say: No thank you. Not
interested. Durham fought the fight against billboard blight years ago,
and we're not interested in revisiting the issue. We don't want
billboards in Durham, electronic or otherwise.
I'm not interested in looking at an electronic billboard on any of the
highways coming into Durham. I cannot imagine a single view in Durham
that I think would be improved by an electronic billboard. I cannot
think of any neighborhood or fellow Durham resident who I think should
have to live within view of one.
Kelly
TheOcean1 at aol.com wrote:
> Kelly
>
> I have no vested interest in having all of us consider any
> proposal.... because there isn't any proposal yet!
>
> You seem pretty vested in getting everyone to make up their minds
> before they've even heard what is being proposed. Why?
>
> Try the same question I asked John, "If Fairway offered to take down
> all of their signs in exchange for one single electronic board, would
> you vote for that?"
>
> How would you vote, Kelly?
>
> If you know what they are proposing, please share it. If you don't
> know, then why the push to get everyone to vote prior to hearing it?
> What's the rush?
>
> Bill
>
>
> In a message dated 1/19/2009 3:57:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> kjj1 at duke.edu writes:
>
> Marcia--
> Your point is well taken. And Rodrigo's email was simple & to the
> point.
>
> I can see why Fairway and their hired representatives want Durhams
> existing prohibition of electronic billboards overturned. What I
> don't understand is what Mike and Bill have invested in having all
> of us consider Fairway's proposal? Why they insist on putting
> "compromise" on the table? Why should we even consider overturning
> our existing billboard ordinances to allow electronic billboards?
> It seems likely to me that the reason there's no text to consider
> is that Fairway withdrew proposed text when they sensed the depth
> of community resistance to their electronic billboards.
>
> The bit about Durham's foodie culture being saved by electronic
> billboard ads directing hungry highway drivers to an independent
> restaurant is perhaps the most entertaining fantasy I've read so
> far. As if the success of Durham's foodie culture will be helped
> by electronic billboards . . . . why do we need to be good enough
> to warrant coverage in Southern Living, Food & Wine, Gourmet, or
> any other national publication when our home-grown foodie
> restaurants can be saved by Fairway's electronic billboards.
>
> Kelly
>
> Marcia Kirinus wrote:
>
>>> Mike - Seems like the community has made up it's mind. I'm not
>>> sure I would constitute a firm resolve as an 'emotional
>>> reaction'. The only thing I'm confused about is why you want to
>>> encourage Fairway to continue discussions. What's in it for
>>> you? If you have opposing views, stop beating your chest, and
>>> tell us (all) why we need to be pro billboards. No theatrics,
>>> no innuendoes, no finger pointing - what is good? What facts
>>> do you want to share with the rest of us that could perhaps sway
>>> us? I never thought of the greater part of Durham as narrow
>>> minded. By 'greater' I mean bigger NOT better. Why go through
>>> years worth of negotiations when it is obvious that billboards
>>> are not wanted. I just don't get your point.
>>> With respect, Marcia on Carolina.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Mike B. for at least be willing to listen.
>>>
>>> What I find confusing is the emotional reaction people have to
>>> billboards.
>>>
>>> Like you, I've tried to remain objective and listen to both
>>> sides before
>>> taking a position. I've even willing to participate in
>>> discussions, if
>>> asked, to get everything that's spoken written down to make sure
>>> we're
>>> accurate in the decision making process.
>>>
>>> Which I'd like to see compared to the long series of discussions
>>> that just
>>> took place recently regarding a very large development proposal
>>> near our
>>> neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> While I was not personally involved in them, I trusted the
>>> folks who were
>>> to represent the best interests of the community.
>>>
>>> From what I understand, neither side agreed with each other in the
>>> beginning. Even along the way, several proposals and drafts
>>> were rejected
>>> for one reason or another, but eventually each side came to an
>>> agreement
>>> that they could live with (literally in their back yards).
>>>
>>> That took a lot of time, effort, debate, argument, counter
>>> point, compromise
>>> and understanding on several sides (city, neighborhood and
>>> developer) over
>>> months and months of meetings, but I believe from the recent
>>> newspaper
>>> articles and the decision to support it by the planning
>>> commission that they
>>> came to a very workable solution.
>>>
>>> I'm just as concerned about the brightness, neighborhood
>>> intrusion, past
>>> litigation and visual blight billboards are currently associated
>>> with, just
>>> like most of us are.
>>>
>>> Why can't this same process be followed and as much effort put
>>> into finding
>>> a better solution to what we have now vs. what may be agreed
>>> to, IN
>>> WRITING, so that everyone has had an opportunity to see what's
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> There's a lot of rhetoric and chest beating going on regarding
>>> billboards on
>>> our listserves and in the papers. Some of it is warranted, some
>>> of it not.
>>>
>>> But before anyone takes a final position on this issue, doesn't
>>> it make
>>> sense to discuss it based on facts and written enforceable
>>> documentation
>>> rather than innuendo and theatrics?
>>>
>>> It's my understanding that these new digital billboards have an
>>> integrated
>>> light sensor that doesn't allow them to get any brighter (and
>>> sometime
>>> significantly so) than the current way of lighting them. I
>>> also understand
>>> that they're proposing to use a local source and donate
>>> time/space(as
>>> they've done for many years) to non-profits and community
>>> sponsored issues
>>> that significantly affect Durham's bottom line. Where's that
>>> role or
>>> participation in the community stand with us? Are they willing
>>> to thin out
>>> some of their billboards along areas that WE feel ought to have
>>> significant
>>> additional buffers? What's enforceable that can be included
>>> into our
>>> ordinances to prevent future litigation? Can solar and wind
>>> energy counter
>>> their carbon footprint or counter it vs. what's happening now?
>>>
>>> Before asking people to take a stand 'fer or agin it' maybe
>>> there's still
>>> time to start getting at what's really bothering us about them
>>> and to come
>>> up with better proposals and solutions, rather than telling
>>> people that the
>>> community has already made up it's mind.
>>>
>>> Have you?
>>>
>>> "It is better to debate a question without settling it, than to
>>> settle a
>>> question without debating it"
>>> --Jespeh Joubert
>>>
>>> Mike Shiflett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Michael Bacon" <michael at snowplow.org
>>> <mailto:michael at snowplow.org>>
>>> To: "Mike - Hotmail" <mwshiflett at hotmail.com
>>> <mailto:mwshiflett at hotmail.com>>
>>> Cc: "owdNA" <owdna at yahoogroups.com <mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [owdna] Re: [pac2] Developments regarding
>>> Electronic billboards
>>> in Durham
>>>
>>>
>>> (Apparently I missed the OWDNA list when replying. Reposted for
>>> full
>>> coverage... :)
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I may be missing something, but last time I checked, 147,
>>> 15-501, 70,
>>> and
>>> 85 ran near our homes, schools, churches, and parks?
>>>
>>> The biggest part of the proposal is to allow lighted electronic
>>> billboards.
>>> There's no reason we need them and no reason they're good for
>>> Durham,
>>> other than to line Fairway's pocketbooks.
>>>
>>> I have not so fond memories of Fairway when they spent tons of
>>> campaign
>>> money to knock a few cracks in Asheville's billboard ordinances,
>>> then
>>> immediately went on a building spree, coating the town with new
>>> billboards
>>> and increasing the sizes of existing ones. One was so reviled that a
>>> rebellious soul went and chainsawed the thing in half, prompting
>>> weeks
>>> of
>>> laudatory letters to the editor in the Citizen-Times. I've seen at
>>> least a
>>> previous generation of what Fairway Outdoor Advertising has in
>>> mind for
>>> what it thinks is just a little improvement, and I can say quite
>>> clearly, I want none of it.
>>>
>>> I've been quiet on this issue, but only because I'm a bit
>>> overwhelmed
>>> with
>>> other stuff at the moment. But while I respect the sentiment of,
>>> "cool
>>> down, let's take a look at this," ask any current or former
>>> resident of
>>> Asheville about this firm, and they'll tell you.
>>>
>>> Don't. Trust. Fairway.
>>>
>>> -Michael
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Mike - Hotmail wrote:
>>>
>>>> As far as I've been able to understand from listening to both
>>>> sides of
>>>> this
>>>> issue, at no time have I heard or seen evidence that the billboard
>>>> industry
>>>> is proposing to put up new ".........flashing billboards near our
>>>> homes,
>>>> schools, churches, and parks." From the previous INC meeting
>>>> and from
>>>> what
>>>> I've read in the newspapers, they only want to have them along the
>>>> current
>>>> legal locations that they are now. That being US85, 15-501, 70 and
>>>> 147.
>>>>
>>>> I have not heard that they are looking at upgrading any signs to
>>>> digital
>>>> anywhere near any of the above.
>>>>
>>>> Can someone can provide confirmation or evidence of this?
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, I'm still trying to understand exactly what
>>>> it being
>>>> proposed and presented in the text amendment.
>>>>
>>>> Mike Shiflett
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kelly Jarrett" <kjj1 at duke.edu <mailto:kjj1 at duke.edu>>
>>>> To: "owdNA" <owdna at yahoogroups.com
>>>> <mailto:owdna at yahoogroups.com>>; "PAC2" <pac2 at yahoogroups.com
>>>> <mailto:pac2 at yahoogroups.com>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:41 AM
>>>> Subject: [pac2] Developments regarding Electronic billboards in
>>>> Durham
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those who have been following the electronic billboard
>>>> issue, the
>>>> following might be of interest:
>>>>
>>>> Forwarded from INC listserv:
>>>>
>>>> folks,
>>>>
>>>> Let us celebrate a victory for the community...
>>>>
>>>> In choosing to do nothing, the DDI board decided not to support the
>>>> billboard industry.
>>>>
>>>> This decision represents a set-back for those trying to stick big,
>>>> bright,
>>>> flashing billboards near our homes, schools, churches, and parks.
>>>> (Thanks go
>>>> to those DDI board members who spoke out against this terrible
>>>> idea.)
>>>>
>>>> The struggle continues to stop the billboard industry from
>>>> overturning
>>>> the
>>>> current ban on electronic billboards in Durham.
>>>>
>>>> But today we celebrate a victory for common sense.
>>>>
>>>> have a great weekend,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> January 15, 2009
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Paul Hickman
>>>> General Manager
>>>> Fairway Outdoor Advertising
>>>> P. O. Box 10545
>>>> Raleigh, NC 27605
>>>>
>>>> Dear Paul,
>>>>
>>>> Several weeks ago Steve Toler and you asked that the DDI Board of
>>>> Directors
>>>> consider your request to the City of Durham related to revised text
>>>> amendment language related to the outdoor advertising industry in
>>>> Durham.
>>>>
>>>> What follows is a summary of the DDI Board’s lengthy and thoughtful
>>>> discussion, and its decision.
>>>>
>>>> As DDI understands, last summer, Fairway Outdoor Advertising
>>>> submitted
>>>> an
>>>> application, which is still pending, for a text amendment
>>>> revision to
>>>> the
>>>> UDO related to Durham’s billboard ordinance. After submitting its
>>>> application, Fairway representatives met with members of Planning
>>>> Department, which forwarded the application to the Joint
>>>> City-County
>>>> Planning Committee for review. The JCCPC recommended to Fairway
>>>> that it
>>>> begin a process of meeting with community organizations to
>>>> discuss the
>>>> billboard proposal. Following the JCCPC meeting, we understand
>>>> that
>>>> Fairway
>>>> withdrew the draft language portion of its text amendment
>>>> application;
>>>> and,
>>>> in good faith, began scheduling meetings for its community outreach
>>>> effort.
>>>> After completing its community outreach effort, Fairway may
>>>> re-submit
>>>> revised draft text amendment language as part of its current
>>>> application.
>>>>
>>>> So, technically, until Fairway re-submits formal draft text
>>>> amendment
>>>> language for its application, currently there is no formal text
>>>> amendment
>>>> “on the table.”
>>>>
>>>> While there is no formal text amendment language to consider at
>>>> this
>>>> time,
>>>> DDI recognizes the substantial community interest about this issue,
>>>> and in
>>>> keeping with DDI’s long standing effort to lend its voice to the
>>>> discussion
>>>> of important community issues, and responding to a request of
>>>> Fairway,
>>>> a DDI
>>>> Partner in Progress, the DDI Board of Directors held a lengthy and
>>>> thoughtful discussion at its meeting on January 15th.
>>>>
>>>> After very careful consideration of facts as understood by the
>>>> members
>>>> present, and of the pros and cons of how this issue relates to our
>>>> community, and in particular downtown, members of the Board of
>>>> Directors
>>>> were unable to come to a consensus on any recommendation, and
>>>> therefore DDI
>>>> voted to take no action related to this issue.
>>>>
>>>> In the interest of disclosure to Fairway and the public, the Board
>>>> asked
>>>> that I elaborate on the reason for our decision to take no action.
>>>>
>>>> The Board’s discussion focused on three main areas: the repair and
>>>> landscaping of billboards currently in our community; the possible
>>>> relocation of billboards within the community; and, the issue of
>>>> allowing
>>>> digital billboards.
>>>>
>>>> Board members did wish to encourage the repair and landscaping of
>>>> billboards
>>>> currently in our community. Members were of the opinion that
>>>> given the
>>>> unsightly nature of many Durham roadsides, and of some
>>>> billboards, our
>>>> community’s appearance would benefit from the repair and
>>>> landscaping of
>>>> current billboards. However, repair or upgrade of billboards is
>>>> difficult.
>>>> As DDI understands, the current Durham billboard ordinance
>>>> allows for
>>>> routine maintenance and for repairs as long as those repairs do not
>>>> exceed
>>>> 25% of the value of the billboard in any given year, or the
>>>> repairs do
>>>> not
>>>> use substantially different materials. For example, if an outdoor
>>>> advertising company attempted to replace a wood billboard frame
>>>> with a
>>>> metal
>>>> frame, it would be difficult to make the upgrade since wood is
>>>> a very
>>>> different material than metal, and the cost would probably
>>>> exceed 25%
>>>> of the
>>>> value of the billboard.
>>>>
>>>> In regard to the issue of relocation of billboards, Board
>>>> members were
>>>> uncertain of any criteria that have been recommended to insure
>>>> that any
>>>> relocated billboard would not harm the visual appeal of any Durham
>>>> neighborhood, including downtown. For example, without specific
>>>> guidelines,
>>>> Board members discussed whether or not billboards could be
>>>> erected in
>>>> an
>>>> area that might result in an unsightly cluster effect, or might
>>>> harm a
>>>> neighborhood’s curb appeal, or, in the case of downtown, might
>>>> block
>>>> downtown’s emerging skyline. As a result of this uncertainty, the
>>>> Board
>>>> recommends to the community that if Fairway re-submits text
>>>> amendment
>>>> language, the issue of relocation would benefit from a community
>>>> discussion
>>>> about appropriate criteria for relocation; and, that serious
>>>> thought
>>>> should
>>>> be given to the formation of a commission of government,
>>>> community and
>>>> industry representatives which would consider any relocation of
>>>> billboards
>>>> along Durham’s main
>>>> corridors.
>>>>
>>>> Very serious consideration was given to the issue of allowing
>>>> digital
>>>> billboards in our community. Members of the Board could come to no
>>>> consensus on whether or not digital billboards brought value or
>>>> harm
>>>> to our
>>>> community --- and it was clear that a consensus was not going to be
>>>> achieved. If one assumes that digital billboards are an effective
>>>> message
>>>> provider, some Board members saw value in digital billboards as
>>>> they
>>>> relate
>>>> to marketing downtown events, providing opportunities for less
>>>> expensive
>>>> marketing for downtown businesses, and providing amber alerts
>>>> and other
>>>> emergency messages that could benefit our community. On the other
>>>> hand,
>>>> other Board members were concerned about the visual impact of
>>>> digital
>>>> billboards, especially since no one could be certain where future
>>>> digital
>>>> billboards might be located (other than on main corridors, and near
>>>> commercial areas), and what impact they might have on any
>>>> neighborhood
>>>> (some
>>>> neighborhoods may be located
>>>> near commercial areas) in Durham. Since Board members were
>>>> simply not
>>>> knowledgeable about where digital billboards would be located, and
>>>> therefore
>>>> would not know what impact they might have on any neighborhood,
>>>> Board
>>>> members could not reach any consensus.
>>>>
>>>> In the final analysis, the DDI Board of Directors is composed of 45
>>>> thoughtful business, community and political leaders. These 45
>>>> people
>>>> will
>>>> have different opinions of what is good, or not good, for our
>>>> community’s
>>>> future growth. Sometimes, not often, reaching a consensus on a
>>>> controversial community issue is simply not possible. And, in
>>>> those
>>>> instances, we have an obligation to agree to disagree with each
>>>> other,
>>>> and
>>>> vote to take the action to take no action.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any questions, or would like to discuss my Board’s
>>>> decision
>>>> further, please feel free to give me a call.
>>>>
>>>> Cordially yours,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> William A. Kalkhof
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> Cc: Mr. Steve Toler
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
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